M138/M153 Pulse Start vs Electric

[Chibils]

I've got some old Lumenarc SE/mogul reflectors that I'm thinking about hooking up but I need to buy myself a 250w ballast. My old one is toast. Given the choice, is there any situation or advantage to a pulse start magnetic ballast over an electronic ballast?

Bulb would be 250w mogul ReefLux 12,000K or Radium 20,000K.

 

[Battlecorals Verified Sponsor]

If your going with the radiums you best bet would be the magnetic m-80 which is a pluse start as well. If it were me, id go with the radium/ m-80 combo over the 12k on any ballast. for what its worth better par and aesthetic for sure.

 

[Chibils]

Hey Adam,

Thanks for your response. Given your sterling reputation, I will certainly take that under consideration. I used to run the ReefLux 12K and was very happy with the color, which is why I suggested that. Also loved the Aqualine Buschke 13K but it looks like that's long gone.

Can any M80 ballast be used?

 

[mcarroll]

Radiums on their preferred ballast. $$$ but delicious.

The ballast has to be able to run at the higher voltage....most magnetic ones can and there are even electronic ballasts designed to act like this these days. A typical electronic ballast will be constant-voltage, so you get the "abnormal" output from a Radium that's typically over-blue on the 250w's and 150w's...which want to run at 270w and 170w. (..if I recall correctly. Been all LED for a few years now so these facts are getting hazy.)

 

[Chibils]

Radiums on their preferred ballast. $$$ but delicious.

The ballast has to be able to run at the higher voltage....most magnetic ones can and there are even electronic ballasts designed to act like this these days. A typical electronic ballast will be constant-voltage, so you get the "abnormal" output from a Radium that's typically over-blue on the 250w's and 150w's...which want to run at 270w and 170w. (..if I recall correctly. Been all LED for a few years now so these facts are getting hazy.)

I have access to plenty of halide ballasts through work. If I can use any M80 ballast then I should be able to get something... Also the Luxcore has a "Super Lumens" mode, which looks like a 270w overdrive mode. Is that correct? I like the e ballast only in case I decide to change bulbs down the line, it seems more flexible. Is that correct?

Radiums on their preferred ballast. $$$ but delicious.

The ballast has to be able to run at the higher voltage....most magnetic ones can and there are even electronic ballasts designed to act like this these days. A typical electronic ballast will be constant-voltage, so you get the "abnormal" output from a Radium that's typically over-blue on the 250w's and 150w's...which want to run at 270w and 170w. (..if I recall correctly. Been all LED for a few years now so these facts are getting hazy.)

 

[mcarroll]

I think magnetic ballasts give excellent performance but aren't as power-efficient as electronic ones.

I would still run my magnetic Coralife ballasts if I went back to halide...

My thinking is that when efficiency becomes the priority, LED will be the correct answer.

 

[Chibils]

I think magnetic ballasts give excellent performance but aren't as power-efficient as electronic ones.

I would still run my magnetic Coralife ballasts if I went back to halide...

My thinking is that when efficiency becomes the priority, LED will be the correct answer.

Efficiency is not a priority for me (halides), but space and heat are. Versatility is also important to me since I'm not sold on the Radiums without using them a while first. I wanted to be able to use other bulbs like the ReefLux without sacrificing performance, and I was under the impression that non-overdrive bulbs performed better on e ballasts.

If that's not the case and mag ballasts run most bulbs better then it's settled. I was looking at the Luxcore and thinking "this can be switched between overdrive (Super Lumen) and normal output with better performance on most non-Radium bulbs." If that assumption is wrong then I will go with the mag ballast. Will an M138/M153 work? I don't know where to find an M80 these days. And can I use any random M138/M153 or is there something specific to look for? Haven't had to buy a ballast in years, and you can't just go on Marine Depot and buy a mag ballast these days.

 

[mcarroll]

I think heat and efficiency are synonymous in this case....and I'm not sure how much there is to gain, really. You want the heat (especially IR light) over the tank to be less....a cooler ballast sitting on the floor doesn't do anything to cool the tank. Technically the room will have to carry less heat, so the tank will cool a little, but it will be infinitesimal...not enough to notice.

I brought up LED because you're likely to cut power usage by 50% (and therefore heat by 50% as well) AND you'll be eliminating the IR component of the light. Those two things will combine for significant heat savings in the tank.

From what I can remember/tell, you ideally would like an m80 ballast....an M138 probe-start ballast would also work, but makes sure it's (amps) rated for the higher peak power.

 

[Chibils]

I think heat and efficiency are synonymous in this case....and I'm not sure how much there is to gain, really. You want the heat (especially IR light) over the tank to be less....a cooler ballast sitting on the floor doesn't do anything to cool the tank. Technically the room will have to carry less heat, so the tank will cool a little, but it will be infinitesimal...not enough to notice.

I brought up LED because you're likely to cut power usage by 50% (and therefore heat by 50% as well) AND you'll be eliminating the IR component of the light. Those two things will combine for significant heat savings in the tank.

From what I can remember/tell, you ideally would like an m80 ballast....an M138 probe-start ballast would also work, but makes sure it's (amps) rated for the higher peak power.

Thanks. Haven't done halides in a long time, I've forgotten more than I know at this point. I was looking and haven't had any luck finding an M80 ballast. But after more googling it seems M80 is a DE ballast and M58 is the SE mag probe start so I've been on a wild goose chase... M58 is what I want, right? And any random M58 will work if it's rated for the extra amperage of overdriving the lamp?

Thanks again for your help, this has been really useful.

 

[mcarroll]

I think you want an M80 or M138....or one of the selectable electronic ballasts.

The Advance 71A5880 seems to be the right model for the M80, but I think it might be discontinued....maybe you can call around or otherwise find a substitution for it? They also have a series of M138's but I know even less about them.

Do you have a supplier you can call? Or maybe just call Phillips Advance on your own if you can....

 

[Chibils]

I think you want an M80 or M138....or one of the selectable electronic ballasts.

The Advance 71A5880 seems to be the right model for the M80, but I think it might be discontinued....maybe you can call around or otherwise find a substitution for it? They also have a series of M138's but I know even less about them.

Do you have a supplier you can call? Or maybe just call Phillips Advance on your own if you can....

So from this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1197755

An M58 is for SE bulbs (what I'll be using) and an M80 is for DE bulbs. HOWEVER, the M80 runs lamps at 3.0a and the M58 runs at 2.1a so I believe it is an M80 I need. Maybe I should just get a selectable electronic ballast and skip the trouble. I'll try Phillips tomorrow.

 

[mcarroll]

An M58 is for SE bulbs

I think you're talking about a different class of halide bulbs than the Radium there.

Here's a better link:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/sj/index.php

Note that Table 1 is only a summary. The devil is in the details – make sure to read down to Table 2 for the direct scoop. And of course read the rest of the article too. I doubt you will have any remaining questions except where to find the **** ballast for sale after that.

In a nutshell, Radiums and a few others are different from typical American bulbs. HQI is a European "high current" standard and I think is what these bulbs ballasts we're talking about (M80/M138 or related e-ballasts) are built like or emulating. I think m80 is the closest ANSI standard.

I'd 86 the ANSI M58 from consideration.

Try searching for "250 watt HQI ballast" (etc) instead of the ANSI codes.

(Honestly, it seems like a Luxcore switchable might be the way to go just to avoid uncertainty...plus you definitely get more flexibility if your lighting needs or bulb preferences change significantly.)

 

[jeremy]

If your gonna change to different bulbs your better off getting a selectable ballast.
If you want an M80, Hamilton has them.
http://hamiltontechnology.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_108&product_id=180

 

[mcarroll]

@jeremy thank you for that...honestly can't believe I didn't check there first!

You can look at that reef keeping link to see which bulbs are M80 compatible.....Radium is one.

 

[Chibils]

I think you're talking about a different class of halide bulbs than the Radium there.

Here's a better link:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/sj/index.php

Note that Table 1 is only a summary. The devil is in the details – make sure to read down to Table 2 for the direct scoop. And of course read the rest of the article too. I doubt you will have any remaining questions except where to find the **** ballast for sale after that.

In a nutshell, Radiums and a few others are different from typical American bulbs. HQI is a European "high current" standard and I think is what these bulbs ballasts we're talking about (M80/M138 or related e-ballasts) are built like or emulating. I think m80 is the closest ANSI standard.

I'd 86 the ANSI M58 from consideration.

Try searching for "250 watt HQI ballast" (etc) instead of the ANSI codes.

(Honestly, it seems like a Luxcore switchable might be the way to go just to avoid uncertainty...plus you definitely get more flexibility if your lighting needs or bulb preferences change significantly.)

Thank you so much! I remember why I switched to T5s last time my halide ballasts went out. I could probably go with an M80 but to be safe I'll just get a LuXcore 250/400 and use the HQI setting as needed. I can also switch to 400w later.

Thank you again to everyone.

 

[JBNY]

Yeah for a Radium 250W MH you want to buy the M80 Ballast. The M80 has the pulse start that is need to fire the lamp and will run the bulb at the proper wattage ~310watts.