I don't have a horse in this race - but the way I see it, is if someone feels that volunteers have an edge - they could volunteer next year. This process of giving something to volunteers incentives people to volunteer work with the chance of getting something worth wild (sp?). I scoots around paying someone while giving volunteers something for their time.
Macna raffle FAIL
- Thread starter davejep
- Start date
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pciscott
Active Member
My Beautiful Wife and I get told we are lucky all the time, part of that luck is that we do buy a bunch of tickets. Part of me buys the tickets to support the event, but we are gamblers and helped keep the lights on in Vegas this trip. I have spent $1000 on tickets at prior Macna events, and it has paid off in some great prizes including a trip to Fiji the Grand Prize of 2017. I have become addicted to the Reef Culture and enjoy the new products and crazy colors I get to see at MACNA, my wife is the gambler. We have been to every Macna since our first in Orlando several years ago and make a vacation out of it yearly. From the time we got home from Fiji she has been saying I am going to win the trip again. She purchased $400 in tickets and went back hourly to deposit her tickets in Walt and Debs Booth so they would be layered. She even purchased $100 in tickets at the banquet from Deb and Heather. At the last minute Kelly was asked to pull the ticket as last years winner. She was wearing a sleeveless dress and held her hands up and jiggled them before she reached into the bucket that was covered by a towel that she had never seen before. She said she moved her hand around mixing the tickets and then pulled a single ticket out and without looking at it handed it to Walt Smith. 00397 was called by Walt and I was looking through my wives tickets and Wow, what are the Odds? Winning the Trip 2 years in a row? Well the room went silent, as I walked up, a silence that was crazy. Instead of congratulations as I walk up on stage everyone was looking like what the heck do we do? In the moment and because of the way we were treated I reached in the bucket and pulled a new ticket. $400 to $500 in Raffle tickets donated to a cause and Luck was shunned by the people I call my friends? Some say Good Karma, but I do have regrets!
I am not one to complain most of the time, but I can say that I got my hackles up enough to bring it up to Macna on what I thought was ridiculous at the raffle. I think that while there was learning going on from a new event staff that the amount of payment going to Volunteers, moves them to paid employees. The tickets were valued at $1 each and each book cost $20 per book, Macna had no discount books because of Nevada law. What got me going was this fact as I usually buy the largest block of discounted tickets at past Macna events. I may be mistaken but last year I think you could buy $600 in tickets for $500 at the bulk pre order price. This year because of Nevada law no discounts. On Saturday afternoon we noticed several Macna Pink Shirts with very thick stacks of tickets and kind of were thinking what is up with this? One of my friends asks to borrow $50 and I hand it over and he comes back bragging that he bought tickets for $10 each. Half of what I paid and why I walked to the front and made a complaint. He then goes on to say that the guy who sold them had 36 tickets from Volunteer work and that he would be getting more the next day for his Saturday work. 36 x $20 is $720 and pretty good pay for a volunteer paid through Friday? Macna immediately took action and put a stop to the Volunteers selling there tickets. I was also told that many of the workers had been working for a week, I still do not think this was fair and I am sure they will learn from this experience. I can say they did not sell the tickets for $1 each like they said they were!
No matter what I do I always try to be transparent and I do not cheat, the way my Father raised me. I know the volunteers did not cheat either were just part of a flawed system, and I appreciate all of you! In my mind I wish I had walked up on the stage, grabbed the mic, dropped it and took another trip to Fiji! I can tell you my reason for pulling the ticket was for Walt and Deb who had a Deer in the headlights look and at the moment could not fathom how Lucky someone can be. Two Great people who helped us enjoy our Fiji Experience last year who have become friends.
So fair warning my wife is going to win again and the only one I know as lucky as her is Myself, my Beautiful partner who puts up with me and this demanding Hobby
Luckiest man in the World!
I am not one to complain most of the time, but I can say that I got my hackles up enough to bring it up to Macna on what I thought was ridiculous at the raffle. I think that while there was learning going on from a new event staff that the amount of payment going to Volunteers, moves them to paid employees. The tickets were valued at $1 each and each book cost $20 per book, Macna had no discount books because of Nevada law. What got me going was this fact as I usually buy the largest block of discounted tickets at past Macna events. I may be mistaken but last year I think you could buy $600 in tickets for $500 at the bulk pre order price. This year because of Nevada law no discounts. On Saturday afternoon we noticed several Macna Pink Shirts with very thick stacks of tickets and kind of were thinking what is up with this? One of my friends asks to borrow $50 and I hand it over and he comes back bragging that he bought tickets for $10 each. Half of what I paid and why I walked to the front and made a complaint. He then goes on to say that the guy who sold them had 36 tickets from Volunteer work and that he would be getting more the next day for his Saturday work. 36 x $20 is $720 and pretty good pay for a volunteer paid through Friday? Macna immediately took action and put a stop to the Volunteers selling there tickets. I was also told that many of the workers had been working for a week, I still do not think this was fair and I am sure they will learn from this experience. I can say they did not sell the tickets for $1 each like they said they were!
No matter what I do I always try to be transparent and I do not cheat, the way my Father raised me. I know the volunteers did not cheat either were just part of a flawed system, and I appreciate all of you! In my mind I wish I had walked up on the stage, grabbed the mic, dropped it and took another trip to Fiji! I can tell you my reason for pulling the ticket was for Walt and Deb who had a Deer in the headlights look and at the moment could not fathom how Lucky someone can be. Two Great people who helped us enjoy our Fiji Experience last year who have become friends.
So fair warning my wife is going to win again and the only one I know as lucky as her is Myself, my Beautiful partner who puts up with me and this demanding Hobby
Luckiest man in the World!
Victoria M
5000 Club Member
That is crazy! That you won two times in a row is crazy! It happens though.My Beautiful Wife and I get told we are lucky all the time, part of that luck is that we do buy a bunch of tickets. Part of me buys the tickets to support the event, but we are gamblers and helped keep the lights on in Vegas this trip. I have spent $1000 on tickets at prior Macna events, and it has paid off in some great prizes including a trip to Fiji the Grand Prize of 2017. I have become addicted to the Reef Culture and enjoy the new products and crazy colors I get to see at MACNA, my wife is the gambler. We have been to every Macna since our first in Orlando several years ago and make a vacation out of it yearly. From the time we got home from Fiji she has been saying I am going to win the trip again. She purchased $400 in tickets and went back hourly to deposit her tickets in Walt and Debs Booth so they would be layered. She even purchased $100 in tickets at the banquet from Deb and Heather. At the last minute Kelly was asked to pull the ticket as last years winner. She was wearing a sleeveless dress and held her hands up and jiggled them before she reached into the bucket that was covered by a towel that she had never seen before. She said she moved her hand around mixing the tickets and then pulled a single ticket out and without looking at it handed it to Walt Smith. 00397 was called by Walt and I was looking through my wives tickets and Wow, what are the Odds? Winning the Trip 2 years in a row? Well the room went silent, as I walked up, a silence that was crazy. Instead of congratulations as I walk up on stage everyone was looking like what the heck do we do? In the moment and because of the way we were treated I reached in the bucket and pulled a new ticket. $400 to $500 in Raffle tickets donated to a cause and Luck was shunned by the people I call my friends? Some say Good Karma, but I do have regrets!
I am not one to complain most of the time, but I can say that I got my hackles up enough to bring it up to Macna on what I thought was ridiculous at the raffle. I think that while there was learning going on from a new event staff that the amount of payment going to Volunteers, moves them to paid employees. The tickets were valued at $1 each and each book cost $20 per book, Macna had no discount books because of Nevada law. What got me going was this fact as I usually buy the largest block of discounted tickets at past Macna events. I may be mistaken but last year I think you could buy $600 in tickets for $500 at the bulk pre order price. This year because of Nevada law no discounts. On Saturday afternoon we noticed several Macna Pink Shirts with very thick stacks of tickets and kind of were thinking what is up with this? One of my friends asks to borrow $50 and I hand it over and he comes back bragging that he bought tickets for $10 each. Half of what I paid and why I walked to the front and made a complaint. He then goes on to say that the guy who sold them had 36 tickets from Volunteer work and that he would be getting more the next day for his Saturday work. 36 x $20 is $720 and pretty good pay for a volunteer paid through Friday? Macna immediately took action and put a stop to the Volunteers selling there tickets. I was also told that many of the workers had been working for a week, I still do not think this was fair and I am sure they will learn from this experience. I can say they did not sell the tickets for $1 each like they said they were!
No matter what I do I always try to be transparent and I do not cheat, the way my Father raised me. I know the volunteers did not cheat either were just part of a flawed system, and I appreciate all of you! In my mind I wish I had walked up on the stage, grabbed the mic, dropped it and took another trip to Fiji! I can tell you my reason for pulling the ticket was for Walt and Deb who had a Deer in the headlights look and at the moment could not fathom how Lucky someone can be. Two Great people who helped us enjoy our Fiji Experience last year who have become friends.
So fair warning my wife is going to win again and the only one I know as lucky as her is Myself, my Beautiful partner who puts up with me and this demanding Hobby
Mael
Bridgeburner
I think some people are getting hung up on the terminology more than anything and it is kind of understandable. The definition of a Volunteer is Time or Resources Given Freely to a cause. example: When we volunteer at St Marys food bank we do not expect or get anything in return. That is a volunteer. When you offer your time full well knowing the compensation rate or total you will receive for your time you are a contract worker.
I'd hate to think simple terminology is what is bugging a lot of people but it sure seems like it.
and again, i honestly have no issues with this years macna, i was aware of the program ahead of time.
I'd hate to think simple terminology is what is bugging a lot of people but it sure seems like it.
and again, i honestly have no issues with this years macna, i was aware of the program ahead of time.
Origami
Community Member
My Beautiful Wife and I get told we are lucky all the time, part of that luck is that we do buy a bunch of tickets. Part of me buys the tickets to support the event, but we are gamblers and helped keep the lights on in Vegas this trip. I have spent $1000 on tickets at prior Macna events, and it has paid off in some great prizes including a trip to Fiji the Grand Prize of 2017. I have become addicted to the Reef Culture and enjoy the new products and crazy colors I get to see at MACNA, my wife is the gambler. We have been to every Macna since our first in Orlando several years ago and make a vacation out of it yearly. From the time we got home from Fiji she has been saying I am going to win the trip again. She purchased $400 in tickets and went back hourly to deposit her tickets in Walt and Debs Booth so they would be layered. She even purchased $100 in tickets at the banquet from Deb and Heather. At the last minute Kelly was asked to pull the ticket as last years winner. She was wearing a sleeveless dress and held her hands up and jiggled them before she reached into the bucket that was covered by a towel that she had never seen before. She said she moved her hand around mixing the tickets and then pulled a single ticket out and without looking at it handed it to Walt Smith. 00397 was called by Walt and I was looking through my wives tickets and Wow, what are the Odds? Winning the Trip 2 years in a row? Well the room went silent, as I walked up, a silence that was crazy. Instead of congratulations as I walk up on stage everyone was looking like what the heck do we do? In the moment and because of the way we were treated I reached in the bucket and pulled a new ticket. $400 to $500 in Raffle tickets donated to a cause and Luck was shunned by the people I call my friends? Some say Good Karma, but I do have regrets!
No matter what I do I always try to be transparent and I do not cheat, the way my Father raised me. I know the volunteers did not cheat either were just part of a flawed system, and I appreciate all of you! In my mind I wish I had walked up on the stage, grabbed the mic, dropped it and took another trip to Fiji! I can tell you my reason for pulling the ticket was for Walt and Deb who had a Deer in the headlights look and at the moment could not fathom how Lucky someone can be. Two Great people who helped us enjoy our Fiji Experience last year who have become friends.
So fair warning my wife is going to win again and the only one I know as lucky as her is Myself, my Beautiful partner who puts up with me and this demanding Hobby
Hi. I was there. In fact, your wife was right behind me when she was adding more tickets to the box next to my dinner table. I recognized her from Walt having introduced you two at his talk that afternoon. It was the only talk that I made a point of seeing while working the event this year (2019 booth sales) as WAMAS made a substantial donation to ADE last December and I wanted an update. Anyway, she was tearing a small stack of sheets into individual tickets, and I was thinking, "Lightning can't strike twice, can it?" Then, a little later, Walt invites you all up (but only she walks up) and goes on to mention that, "Traditionally, my lovely wife Deb draws the winning ticket but this year...." Oh no, I'm thinking... but what are the odds. Then, the winning ticket is pulled and you're way in the back (and I'm kind of close to the front). I can't really see you across the distance, but Walt looks kind of perplexed and says something about odds.... Then, you come walking down the side. The room was silent. Dead silent.
I really respect what you two did to relieve the tension in the room. I knew that you probably had $100 in the raffle at least because I saw those going into the box. I didn't know that you had another $400 invested.
I'll have to remember that strategy - layering the tickets. I don't play the raffle so it won't benefit me, but it's worth remembering nonetheless.
I wish you luck in the 2019 drawing.
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When we hosted Macna Atlantic City NJ, We used cages. It took less then 30 seconds per. We also compensated our helpers in other ways then giving them free tickets.
Not to jump on this but to me the biggest issue is transparency. If i'm purchasing a raffle ticket and its not disclosed that multiple tickets were given out to volunteers for free I would think my chances of winning are a lot higher than they actually were since people are less likely to pay for a chance to win something. I think you could disclose this but there's no way i'm going to spend a dime on a raffle ticket when they were given out for free, exclude them from the raffle or find other ways to compensate volunteers.
ndrwater
2500 Club Member
Scott and Kelly are friends of me and my wife, and are wonderful people. They get "lucky" because of the amounts of money they throw at the raffle. There IS luck involved, but you can skew the odds in your favor by having more scratch in the game. I don't agree with how the volunteers were paid in tickets, but can agree that it was done as a way to thank them for all the hard work they do. As one of the many people who put on RAP every year, I know how valuable volunteers are. Couldn't be done without them.
As far as lightning striking twice, or more, I'll give an example of how the odds can work in your favor. At a local beer and burger place by me, they do a sports memorabilia raffle every Sunday.. usually people throw $5 or so just to see if they can win.. well, I throw $20-$40 in a very small raffle a d have won about 15 times.. my best streak was 7 weeks in a row.. having half or more if the tickets DEFINITELY increased my odds.
As for what @pciscott and his lovely wife did is just outstanding.. and at the spur of the moment. Really tells you the character of people. By giving up a huge money trip because of the deafening silence in the room is something I'm not sure I could, or would have done.. I know that talking to Kelly after the event and hearing how all the vitreol hurt her so much, I was sad and mad all at the same time.. they got "lucky" but didn't at the same time.
Daniel@R2R
Living the Reef Life
+1 Scott and Kelly are great people, and I am angered and saddened to hear about the way they were treated.
dzones
Well-Known Member
One possible solution might be to offer "volunteers" rewards in MACNA/MASNA "bucks" that could be used for things associated with that years show. Examples might be banquet/reception tickets, MASNA memberships, tee shirts etc with each item having a MACNA bucks price attached that they will need to cash their rewards in for. Possibly even having a top prize for the person with the most hours volunteered as an extra incentive.
I don't think offering raffle tickets in any way is a good idea based on the responses posted here. Until I read about the sheer number of tickets received for their "volunteering" and then reading that some were selling their earned tickets at half face value I did not have issue with the concept.
I understand that not wanting to actually pay money as this would open up a whole accounting issue regarding wages with state and federal gov't not to mention the necessary paperwork and research for every show/state.
I also see why not having a special raffle for them is also not a good idea unless the item was actually purchased by the MACNA group prior, then the MACNA bucks could go towards those specific raffle tickets too with only volunteers winning the prize(s). Nice example for a prize might be tickets for next year's event so not costing the MACNA/MASNA group actual money.
This would keep everything completely separate from the main event raffles and also keep from the sales of black market tickets.
I don't think offering raffle tickets in any way is a good idea based on the responses posted here. Until I read about the sheer number of tickets received for their "volunteering" and then reading that some were selling their earned tickets at half face value I did not have issue with the concept.
I understand that not wanting to actually pay money as this would open up a whole accounting issue regarding wages with state and federal gov't not to mention the necessary paperwork and research for every show/state.
I also see why not having a special raffle for them is also not a good idea unless the item was actually purchased by the MACNA group prior, then the MACNA bucks could go towards those specific raffle tickets too with only volunteers winning the prize(s). Nice example for a prize might be tickets for next year's event so not costing the MACNA/MASNA group actual money.
This would keep everything completely separate from the main event raffles and also keep from the sales of black market tickets.
Victoria M
5000 Club Member
It is crazy. Crazy awesome! It happens though. Kelly worked hard to increase her odds too. It sounds like a lot of bad ju ju was building around the raffle due to other issues before that trip raffle was even drawn. I feel so bad for how it all happened and I was not even there.
Victoria M
5000 Club Member
Why was this year different than years previous? Have they always give raffle tickets to volunteers?
I was there. That raffle was just as slow as any MACNA raffle. Certainly not 30 seconds per prize as you stated. Don't you remember how long that raffle took?
Victoria M
5000 Club Member
I should have made it clear that was with an incredulous happy voice.
PS. Still sad about the turn of events though.
Origami
Community Member
I don't think it was that. The Fiji drawing at the banquet is quite separate than the other drawings. I think that it was more a case of the person drawing the ticket (from a bucket with a whole lot of tickets) winning the grand prize that caused people to step back in disillusioned wonder. The idea of having last year's winners pull the ticket wasn't the best idea given that they had a lot of tickets in the raffle. My guess is that Walt didn't know they had a lot in the drawing; that he had not pre-coordinated the drawing idea with last year's winner (or with MASNA); and that Kelly had to make an on-the-spot decision to draw the ticket when Walt, who hosted Scott and Kelly in Fiji just a few weeks prior, asked her to draw the ticket while she was on stage in front of thousands of people.
Always? I don't know. However, it's been common practice in recent years. The volunteer incentive plan in previous years may have been less generous and the overall ticket sales more robust, making the odds impact slight.
Potatohead
Valuable Member
It was the winner's wife who drew the ticket? I didn't catch that the firs time.
What would have been amazing was if when he went up to "claim the prize" and then decided to re-draw, if he drew himself or his wife again. lol
What would have been amazing was if when he went up to "claim the prize" and then decided to re-draw, if he drew himself or his wife again. lol
No, trust me, it was more amazing that he walked away from the grand prize that they won 100% legitimately! And left the show empty handed without even so much as a thank you as a consolation. SAD
