Mag won't go up, stuck at 1200

[rkpetersen]

If you using the Red Sea Pro kit, I trust the Salifert more.

Yes. The Salifert kit is simple to use, very reproducible with a easily detected titration endpoint, and agrees within a few percentage points with results from Triton labs. The Red Sea, Elos and Nyos tests are not as good.

 

[Rakie]

Bear in mind the directions are calling for equal parts dosing:

"Please note that at the beginning # 1, 2 and 3 Essentials should be dosed in equal amounts."

Correct. But my magnesium has been dwindling for months, I have only been using ATI for 2 days. This is a long term issue and has nothing to do with ATI directly -- I just listed ATI as I have switched to it 2 days ago, and wanted to know if I had to increase my dosage through ATI, or buy another mag supplement. I'm also dosing magnesium Increasing my magnesium dosage with ME corals a few weeks ago helped -- But within a week mag has slid down 100ppm.

So based on what people are saying, I'm guessing my test kit may have gone bad. So I'll make sure to test with another person soon.

 

[GoVols]

Yes. The Salifert kit is simple to use, very reproducible with a easily detected titration endpoint, and agrees within a few percentage points with results from Triton labs. The Red Sea, Elos and Nyos tests are not as good.

rkpetersen,
Welcome to Reef2Reef.

And I can't agree anymore. You nailed it.

 

[CoralNerd]

Told you the test kit is bad [emoji2] and you thought Fritz salt wasn't high in mag. The old Fritz salt formula was pretty high j never even needed to dose mag.

 

[GoVols]

Told you the test kit is bad [emoji2] and you thought Fritz salt wasn't high in mag. The old Fritz salt formula was pretty high j never even needed to dose mag.

CoralNerd,
I loved the box of the RPM that I used at the first of the year and it always mixed to about 1400 to 1420 ppm on the mag.
Since that time I've seen enough reports that batches are coming out to 1600 - 1700 mag

In one of Shaun's video's. He says something like if we hit bad batches, we will catch them and we'll just use those for making other Fritz products.

It saddens me that they had such a great mix and are ruining their reputation so fast. I believe in growing a company and that's a good goal but it has to be done in a manner that keeps up your standards that got you there in the first place.

Also, Shaun at Fritz said at that time, that the cal tolerance was between 430-450 ppm.
Now, Their website says 400-450 on the cal and that's a big gap as far as I'm concerned.
And they've thrown in an * about home test kits and that bother's me too.

I wanted to go back the the RPM but I've lost faith in the mix and a cal that "now" mixes from 400 - 450 is a deal breaker for myself.
That's not the tighter parms, that it used to have.

If you look closely at the new LiveAquaia reef mix params. to the RPM params. and that it comes in the same 205 boxes / 180 gallon buckets and 53 gallons bags as the RPM, then until I'm told otherwise, it's the exact same mix but I can't prove it.

If someone know's of a proven mix that comes in @ 1.025 SG
With the big three @
Cal 430 - 450
Alk 8 - 8.5 dkh
Mag 1400 - 1420
Then I'm all ears.

I'd really just like to have kept dosing up the IO but the high alk messes with the Red Sea ABC+ powder dosing (for a few days) with my large water changes and I really don't want to raise the display alk to make up for the higher alk in the product.

I just want a mix that matches my display so I can just keep plugging away with the ABC+ powder and colors C and D.
Also, I always price check and IO/RC prices are starting to climb too.

I've been using the RS "Blue Bucket" and their new IPC "My Batch" reports have been nailing the test kits that I use.
I do dose up the cal, alk and mag while mixing it and the Brightwell's mag takes care of the cal and mag but it raises the cal in my display too.

I'm staying with the bb but I think that I'm going to start buying the Seachem Reef Advantage mag crystals in the 5k buckets again.
It's comes at a really good price and I still have a ton of Reef Advantage cal powder and Reef Builder.

 

[Rakie]

To be fair I consider 1440 mag to be on par, not 'high'. Low is below 1400, 1400-1500 is ideal, above 1500 is high (to me)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

To be fair I consider 1440 mag to be on par, not 'high'. Low is below 1400, 1400-1500 is ideal, above 1500 is high (to me)

Why do you want it so much higher than natural ocean water?

 

[Rakie]

Why do you want it so much higher than natural ocean water?

Well I've always heard NSW between 1280 and 1380 -- And the most successful tanks I've seen keep Mag around 1400-1500, so that's what I emulate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Well I've always heard NSW between 1280 and 1380 -- And the most successful tanks I've seen keep Mag around 1400-1500, so that's what I emulate.

Ok. I just hadn't draw a correlation between elevated magnesium and tank "quality".

 

[Rakie]

Frankly, I've never seen anybody who keeps NSW levels have anything worth showing off. So I try to replicate the results of successful reefers, which is what almost everyone does. Additionally, most quality salts have mag over 1350, so it's hard to keep it down. Most reefers also run a higher pH, higher Alk as well, which I know you're aware of.

At any rate, I tested at 1260 this morning, tested again at a friends at 1280 -- 20ppm for Salifert kits is within the margin of error IMO, so it looks like my mag was just absurdly low.

@mdbannister -- Hey you like reef stuff. Have a dog in this NSW vs Elevated levels stuff?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Frankly, I've never seen anybody who keeps NSW levels have anything worth showing off. So I try to replicate the results of successful reefers, which is what almost everyone does. Additionally, most quality salts have mag over 1350, so it's hard to keep it down. Most reefers also run a higher pH, higher Alk as well, which I know you're aware of.

At any rate, I tested at 1260 this morning, tested again at a friends at 1280 -- 20ppm for Salifert kits is within the margin of error IMO, so it looks like my mag was just absurdly low.

@mdbannister -- Hey you like reef stuff. Have a dog in this NSW vs Elevated levels stuff?

I just don't agree. Lots of great tanks target major elements at the equivalent of 35 ppt seawater.

 

[GoVols]

Ok. I just hadn't draw a correlation between elevated magnesium and tank "quality".

Randy,
I hit two Red Sea Pro mag refill kits (at different times and batch #'s) that gave myself, false, on the high readings and I was getting (precipt) from the false readings. Cal and alk intake, completely stopped and I could see the precipt. dusting on the bb floor

So, I raised the mag to 1400 just in case I hit another bad refill but I have moved on the the Salifert mag kit too.

So, I just "feel" safer at slightly elevated big 3 parameters.

 

[GoVols]

At any rate, I tested at 1260 this morning, tested again at a friends at 1280 -- 20ppm for Salifert kits is within the margin of error IMO, so it looks like my mag was just absurdly low

Rakie,
I'm just trying to think outside the box ;Wacky

When you dose up your mag have you tested it within a couple of hours to see if it rose up?
I've also read that the brightwells mag liquid can really cake up at the bottom, so I shake the jeeber's out of my 2L jugs.

Also, Have you tried a different mag brand to make sure that you have not got a bad batch of mag?

Thanks, Freddie

 

[Rakie]

@Randy Holmes-Farley -- I agree. There's a lot of ways to skin a cat in this hobby, but all I've learned from the time I spent reading and listening to MACNA speakers has taught me that (supposedly)

- Increasing pH will increase calcification rate, and corals will uptake more of the big three.
- I've read Dana Riddle (I think) claim that a dKH of 9 is where the maximum gains give way to diminishing returns in coral photosynthesis.
- Dana Riddle also says higher par value can be linked to slowed photosynthesis; coupled with wholesalers who --
- Wholesalers keep their SPS / LPS in what we would basically consider no-par zones. Most of these companies get the best color and growth by putting SPS between 200-100 par, and LP below 75 par

Not one of these things coincides with the status quo -- And

Lastly, nobody wants our stuff to look 'good', we want it to be 'the best'. We all want our corals to be the envy of others due to absurd color, growth, etc etc. And most of the "WOW" factor tanks run things far above NSW. To me, this is an indicator that while NSW is the norm -- The norm can be improved upon.

While a totally different subject altogether, I think Anabolic Steroids are good proof that nature can be improved.

Rakie,
I'm just trying to think outside the box ;Wacky

When you dose up your mag have you tested it within a couple of hours to see if it rose up?
I've also read that the brightwells mag liquid can really cake up at the bottom, so I shake the jeeber's out of my 2L jugs.

Also, Have you tried a different mag brand to make sure that you have not got a bad batch of mag?

Thanks, Freddie

Thanks @GoVols -- I'll answer everything individually.

1) Yes, I make sure to test after the product has had time to mix into the system for a few hours.
2) Brightwells mag does do that, so I too shake it pretty hard and smack the bottom to unleash w/e gets stuck down there.
3) I've tried 3 different mag brands, and my mag had been continually dropping. ME Corals, ATI, then Brightwell to correct my Mag

A) Was using ME Corals for a little over two months. It's very potent stuff, and was working very well for me but once ATI was available, I had to give it a go. My Mag problem started here. My mag was soo high from ME corals, i turned off dosing. Just kept waiting and testing at above 1500, then one day it was like 1450. Then I slowly started dosing just a tiny bit thinking it was fine. Then a month later my mag had dropped by about 200. I increased dose and mag kept dropping. Until finally

B) I've only been using ATI for 3 days now -- All is well but i did another follow up test on mag, and it was down to 1150! So then I --

C) Bought brightwell aquatics 2 days ago, and made this thread.

 

[GoVols]

@Rakie
Thanks for your feedback and I figured that you've done all the things that I mentioned.
Your one of the most detailed reefer's that I know.

We've been to war together and we'll always be good friends.

I agree that my reef has been better at elevated parms. but I've also changed up the organics and lighting too.

To myself: Every reef / reefer is different and what method that works for one, may not work for another.
As you said "Many ways to skin a cat"

But to stay on track:
I hope that you can find the trick to get back to 1400 mag and I like that # too.

I understand that you just started the ATI and I want to see how it plays out on your build.

Freddie

 

[Rakie]

@Rakie
Thanks for your feedback and I figured that you've done all the things that I mentioned.
Your one of the most detailed reefer's that I know.

We've been to war together and we'll always be good friends.

I agree that my reef has been better at elevated parms. but I've also changed up the organics and lighting too.

To myself: Every reef / reefer is different and what method that works for one, may not work for another.
As you said "Many ways to skin a cat"

But to stay on track:
I hope that you can find the trick to get back to 1400 mag and I like that # too.

I understand that you just started the ATI and I want to see how it plays out on your build.

Freddie

Thanks much buddy!

It's always a challenge to be detailed like you'd like to. It's easy to forget to log that test you just did, or notice what the last things you had done before x, y, or z comes up. Charting the course is easiest with smooth sailing, but when there's a problem and were forced to play cause and effect with water chemistry we start having some real issues.

For whatever reason, I feel confident my problem was solved. my first issue was greatly underestimating just how much mag I needed to dose to bring the numbers up. My second issue was allowing my mag to slide from 1400 down to 1100 over the course of a few months. From what randy says, that shouldn't even be possible.. But for some reason, my tank went mag binging, or I had precipitation of some sort.

Earlier today I tested at 1260, which is up 110. I'll be watching to see how things go. I will say that the brightwell mag doesn't seem to be making much difference -- I dosed 60ml which should have raised my mag by about 30-35 -- And it raised it zero. So I may have to just dose heavily with my ATI mag.

 

[GoVols]

Thanks much buddy!

It's always a challenge to be detailed like you'd like to. It's easy to forget to log that test you just did, or notice what the last things you had done before x, y, or z comes up. Charting the course is easiest with smooth sailing, but when there's a problem and were forced to play cause and effect with water chemistry we start having some real issues.

For whatever reason, I feel confident my problem was solved. my first issue was greatly underestimating just how much mag I needed to dose to bring the numbers up. My second issue was allowing my mag to slide from 1400 down to 1100 over the course of a few months. From what randy says, that shouldn't even be possible.. But for some reason, my tank went mag binging, or I had precipitation of some sort.

Earlier today I tested at 1260, which is up 110. I'll be watching to see how things go. I will say that the brightwell mag doesn't seem to be making much difference -- I dosed 60ml which should have raised my mag by about 30-35 -- And it raised it zero. So I may have to just dose heavily with my ATI mag.

Rakie,

Randy's right, It does take a lot of mag to get if buffered up, and hold but we all have to stay within the daily recommend dose of the products that we're using.

You'll get it done and we'll get to see ;Wideyed how the ATI plays out your build.


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