Mandarin copepod restocking question

[Jcon82]

So my LFS sold me a mandarin on a deal I couldn't refuse. The tank is a 9 month old 40 breeder with a Royal Gramma, 2 clowns, firefish and 4 chromis (these may get rehomed). As far as I know the other fish do not eat pods. I have been dosing a bottle of Arcti-pods every month since starting the tank.

Will a bottle of these pods a month be sufficient or should I look into a new method?

 

[homer1475]

Seed with pods, feed phytoplankton to feed the pods so they reproduce.

 

[Jcon82]

Seed with pods, feed phytoplankton to feed the pods so they reproduce.

So pods once a month and feed phyto feast 2-3 times a week?

 

[Fish_Fry]

I personally think you'll need more than a bottle a month, but regardless even if it was only a bottle a month, it's still rather expensive.

I'd look to cultivate your owns phyto & pods. It will be much cheaper in the long run. You can always buy an occasional bottle in case you need to restart your culture.

 

[Jcon82]

I personally think you'll need more than a bottle a month, but regardless even if it was only a bottle a month, it's still rather expensive.

I'd look to cultivate your owns phyto & pods. It will be much cheaper in the long run. You can always buy an occasional bottle in case you need to restart your culture.

I've considered this prior to getting the fish. My 40B just used HOB gear and I have yet to set up a refugium that the pods could thrive in. I've been debating setting up one using a breeder box.

 

[Crustaceon]

Part of the key to success is having sections of the tank that the mandarin cannot get to, such as a "rubble pile" or pod hotel. A mandarin in a 40g will decimate an entire bottle of pods within days unless you can find a way to give that population some areas of refuge to reproduce in peace.

 

[thewedge]

Just my experience But in my now 1-year-old 133 gallon, I followed pretty much the same approach as you and got a mandarin at 9 months as well. I still see pods all over the glass when I don't scrape it and he seems to be grazing constantly and doing well. I have not been adding pods monthly since about the 6-month mark but I did recently take advantage of the sale at algae barn and get four jars for $100. I also dose Algae Barn phyto at least three times a week.

I have a 20 gallon tank that is several years old that I haven't added pods to in years and they're all over the glass in there as well. But the only occupants of the tank are a couple of clown fish and a goby and pistol pair.

All this and I still felt anxious about keeping the guy fed. So last week I set up the fuge section in my sump and added some more pods.

I also have the baby brine shrimp kit from BRS. Once I set it up I have tons of live food to feed within 24 hours. I do that about once a month because I'm lazy AF. It's a very easy way to provide live food.

 

[Jcon82]

Just my experience But in my now 1-year-old 133 gallon, I followed pretty much the same approach as you and got a mandarin at 9 months as well. I still see pods all over the glass when I don't scrape it and he seems to be grazing constantly and doing well. I have not been adding pods monthly since about the 6-month mark but I did recently take advantage of the sale at algae barn and get four jars for $100. I also dose Algae Barn phyto at least three times a week.

I have a 20 gallon tank that is several years old that I haven't added pods to in years and they're all over the glass in there as well. But the only occupants of the tank are a couple of clown fish and a goby and pistol pair.

All this and I still felt anxious about keeping the guy fed. So last week I set up the fuge section in my sump and added some more pods.

I also have the baby brine shrimp kit from BRS. Once I set it up I have tons of live food to feed within 24 hours. I do that about once a month because I'm lazy AF. It's a very easy way to provide live food.

Oh the brine shrimp hatchery is a great idea. Thanks!

 

[homer1475]

I keep a pair of breeding mandys in my 80G cube well fed(they are little fatties). I dose 160ml of phyto daily, and have a rock rubble pile in my sump where there are literally thousands of pods.

You eat every day, your fish eat every day, feed your pods daily.

 

[Jcon82]

I keep a pair of breeding mandys in my 80G cube well fed(they are little fatties). I dose 160ml of phyto daily, and have a rock rubble pile in my sump where there are literally thousands of pods.

You eat every day, your fish eat every day, feed your pods daily.

Thats a lot of phyto! I still feel like most of my phyto ends up in the skimmer no matter how long I leave it off for

 

[homer1475]

I have worked up to that amount over a very long time. The typical suggestion is 1ml/g to start with.

I don't dose phyto to just feed pods though. I dose an 8 species blend that feeds every tiny mouth in my tank.

Yes it's expensive, but I buy it from a well known member on here that has a great reputation. Check out @Eldredge in the for sale section. Ratehr cheap, and a great product. Much better stuff then you can buy from the big box reef stores(sorry to our sponsors, but his stuff is just loads superior).

 

[DaJMasta]

Even with phytoplankton dosing I would not expect a tank of that size to be able to sustain a mandarin on copepod production alone. If you had a large fuge and also did the phyto dosing, maybe, but even then it's on the low side. I'd normally shoot for at least 65G with a fair bit of rock for a single mandarin indefinitely. I also think pods once a month is probably on the low side, but it's certainly better than nothing.

How does its stomach look? If it's not concave yet you've still got some time to devise a new method. I would try to train it into frozen food, then feed at least once a day with the pumps off when it's trained. Mine have taken around 2 weeks to train, put in a mesh breeder box in the tank and fed twice daily with frozen in several varieties, vacuuming out the old food each morning. The first they take to is generally bloodworms, but the goal is that they act excited/start hunting around as soon as you feed them and immediately find chunks to eat, since a big problem for them eating prepared foods in a reef tank is that it can easily blow away or get eaten by something else in the time it take them to hunt it down.

Also with phyto, dosing anything is better than nothing, and not all of them are the same. Regular culture concentration live phyto is going to be the most nutritious (per given density), but also is much less dense than concentrated algae pastes, for example. 1mL of concentrate a day could easily be a similar number of cells as several hundred mL of live culture, but of course it's in a form not everything will eat and it won't live in the water column. I've seen people dose rates around a single mL per 10 gallons of tank or more and report increased pods, so I think a small amount can still be a benefit.

 

[GobyGuy]

I'd try adding some frozen like PE Calanus? Not trying to push them, i know its small frozen food though, perhaps the LFS didnt have a wild caught one? im not sure if it was specified, should be sustainable on frozen food though, I'm looking into adding a Bitoa Mandarin into a 30gal I dont think I could cultivate enough pods to keep a wild one happy haha

 

[Lavey29]

I just got a mandarin a few months back in an established 80g system with a fuge. I have seeded weekly with a variety of different pods to establish different populations and the chaeto fuge helps. I also found they love Coral Feast Oro by RUSalty.

Aren't the arcti pods dead pod food? You want to add live pods and different types.

 

[Jcon82]

I'd try adding some frozen like PE Calanus? Not trying to push them, i know its small frozen food though, perhaps the LFS didnt have a wild caught one? im not sure if it was specified, should be sustainable on frozen food though, I'm looking into adding a Bitoa Mandarin into a 30gal I dont think I could cultivate enough pods to keep a wild one happy haha

It had been in their frag tank for a few months picking the bugs off the new arrivals. I feed Hikari mega marine once or twice a week but was going to start some blood worms since I've read that mandarins can take a liking to them

 

[GobyGuy]

Nice, heres to hoping your mandarin is open minded!

 

[DaJMasta]

They can eat much larger foods than you expect, but mine have generally taken to bloodworms first, then mysis/blended mixes second. They will eat calanus, but I haven't noticed the same chase-down-a-chunk-in-the-tank behavior, even though they're much closer to their normal food. I've heard roe can be a good choice too, but mine (and my other fish) have never been crazy about the frozen fish food grade stuff.

 

[Crustaceon]

For reference, I typically use crushed coral for mandarins. Literally the entire bottom of my tank is a rubble pile.

 

[Lavey29]

For reference, I typically use crushed coral for mandarins. Literally the entire bottom of my tank is a rubble pile.

How do you manage detritus in there? Lot of turkey basting?

 

[Crustaceon]

How do you manage detritus in there? Lot of turkey basting?

I mostly don't care. Either I can have 2-3” inches of sand or 1” of crushed coral, either way, there will be detritus. The positive thing about it is pods and bristleworms gain very easy access to that resource. If nitrates get too high, then i’ll pick a small section and gravel vac during the water change.