Manderin not eating

[alicia24]

Hello, I have a wild manderin who I started TTM on and he stopped eattimg after the 1st or 2secomd transfer so I havw'nt seen him eat in probably 2 werks and I watch him a lot. I dose live pods daily. Also tried: baby brine, roe, blackworms soaked in garlic, frozen brine, frozen cylcops. He doesn't eat. Looks very skinny. I did treat him with prazi x 2 but I dont think that's why he isn't eating. I'm at a loss if he's really that stessed that he wont eat or if a disease is causing loss of appetite. I also tried small pellets cant remember name of them. No ammonia in tank. Thank you

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hello, I have a wild manderin who I started TTM on and he stopped eattimg after the 1st or 2secomd transfer so I havw'nt seen him eat in probably 2 werks and I watch him a lot. I dose live pods daily. Also tried: baby brine, roe, blackworms soaked in garlic, frozen brine, frozen cylcops. He doesn't eat. Looks very skinny. I did treat him with prazi x 2 but I dont think that's why he isn't eating. I'm at a loss if he's really that stessed that he wont eat or if a disease is causing loss of appetite. I also tried small pellets cant remember name of them. No ammonia in tank. Thank you

Although this isn't what you want to hear - a substantial number of mandarins are collected with cyanide. The results from this terrible practice include emaciation and not eating. Overall, I've found in fish I've studied suspected to have been caught with cyanide experience a 40 to 60% mortality rate over the first four months after collection. There is no way to really confirm this issue or not though.

Can you post a video of the fish? That would give me some idea as to its respiration rate, as well as overall body condition.

TTM is really best used to just control marine ich, other diseases tend to slide through the process. The prazi treatment you did would help with flukes, but it still could be an issue with a direct development protozoan that TTM just doesn't handle (hybrid TTM with peroxide is a bit better in that regard though).

Jay

 

[alicia24]

Although this isn't what you want to hear - a substantial number of mandarins are collected with cyanide. The results from this terrible practice include emaciation and not eating. Overall, I've found in fish I've studied suspected to have been caught with cyanide experience a 40 to 60% mortality rate over the first four months after collection. There is no way to really confirm this issue or not though.

Can you post a video of the fish? That would give me some idea as to its respiration rate, as well as overall body condition.

TTM is really best used to just control marine ich, other diseases tend to slide through the process. The prazi treatment you did would help with flukes, but it still could be an issue with a direct development protozoan that TTM just doesn't handle (hybrid TTM with peroxide is a bit better in that regard though).

Jay

Thank you for your reply as always!! That is horrible about the cyanide



!! I did read they are often caught with harpoons and that made me question the ethics of this hobby. Been thinking if captive bred is more ethical. Anyway I did attampt httm. This fish flipped over in the h202 bath and I think its because the water was too cold (I maybe misunderstood directions about aerated the water for an hour prior and it dropped to 68f). Evee since the bath he hasnt been the same. My video quality is terrible but if you look closely you do see his mouth moving in/out not rapid but it is abnormal. He did some flashing yesterday thats when I decided to do the second prazi dose. He doesnt move too much. Sometimes he does. I cant help but to think I caused this but also cant imagine that temp drop/bath would stun him for like 2 weeks. I just saw him sitting on my paul b type feeder but not pecking so I guess there's a chance he was eating when I wasnt looking..doubt it but maybe. Also theres 2 airstones o

n there so I dont think o2 is the issue. I tried a power head but it blows him around. So if it is cyanide theres really nothing to do? You cant see it but he has that lateral line so I know hes not doing well

 

[jackson6745]

Get Live black worms. You may trigger a feeding response.

 

[alicia24]

Get Live black worms. You may trigger a feeding response.

I called multiple bait & tackle places asking for blood worms & they don't have them. I will check about the black worms. Thanks!

 

[jackson6745]

I called multiple bait & tackle places asking for blood worms & they don't have them. I will check about the black worms. Thanks!

Bloodworms would be too big. Check all your local fish shops. They usually sell live black worms in the fresh water sections. You'll want to keep them refrigerated and do water changes in their container with rodi or dechlorinated water every day or other day etc.

 

[alicia24]

Bloodworms would be too big. Check all your local fish shops. They usually sell live black worms in the fresh water sections. You'll want to keep them refrigerated and do water changes in their container with rodi or dechlorinated water every day or other day etc.

Ok thank you!! Good tip about the water change. I will check fish shops tmrw

 

[alicia24]

Although this isn't what you want to hear - a substantial number of mandarins are collected with cyanide. The results from this terrible practice include emaciation and not eating. Overall, I've found in fish I've studied suspected to have been caught with cyanide experience a 40 to 60% mortality rate over the first four months after collection. There is no way to really confirm this issue or not though.

Can you post a video of the fish? That would give me some idea as to its respiration rate, as well as overall body condition.

TTM is really best used to just control marine ich, other diseases tend to slide through the process. The prazi treatment you did would help with flukes, but it still could be an issue with a direct development protozoan that TTM just doesn't handle (hybrid TTM with peroxide is a bit better in that regard though).

Jay

I think this video is better

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I think this video is better

I'm not sure what to make of the video - the mandarin's respiration is slower than normal. If it was faster, then some gill disease would be suspected, I have no idea why it would be breathing slower though - sorry!

 

[Lavey29]

Although this isn't what you want to hear - a substantial number of mandarins are collected with cyanide. The results from this terrible practice include emaciation and not eating. Overall, I've found in fish I've studied suspected to have been caught with cyanide experience a 40 to 60% mortality rate over the first four months after collection. There is no way to really confirm this issue or not though.

Can you post a video of the fish? That would give me some idea as to its respiration rate, as well as overall body condition.

TTM is really best used to just control marine ich, other diseases tend to slide through the process. The prazi treatment you did would help with flukes, but it still could be an issue with a direct development protozoan that TTM just doesn't handle (hybrid TTM with peroxide is a bit better in that regard though).

Jay

Do you know they also use micro tiny harpoons to get them out of caves too.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Do you know they also use micro tiny harpoons to get them out of caves too.

Back in the 1970's, we saw a lot of mandarins and firefish with holes in their fins from that. We also saw some with wounds in their bodies from the same issue. Have you seen this recently though?

 

[Lavey29]

Back in the 1970's, we saw a lot of mandarins and firefish with holes in their fins from that. We also saw some with wounds in their bodies from the same issue. Have you seen this recently though?

My LFS said they still do it in some places. Perhaps he sees it at the wholesaler supply.

 

[alicia24]

I'm not sure what to make of the video - the mandarin's respiration is slower than normal. If it was faster, then some gill disease would be suspected, I have no idea why it would be breathing slower though - sorry!

It's ok! Thank you for viewing it!

 

[alicia24]

I'm not sure what to make of the video - the mandarin's respiration is slower than normal. If it was faster, then some gill disease would be suspected, I have no idea why it would be breathing slower though - sorry!

I've noticed it's gils flare in and out when breathing and breathing kind of irradictely in this video. Is there anything you could think I try trreating him with if it is gill related? I did prazi x 2, ttm, metro, doing kanaplex now on a whim. Thank you so much I just feel very bad for him seeing him like this for so long. I still havent seen him eat and he barely moves doesnt flutter his fins much.

 

[Kasrift]

I'd check any freshwater forums for people with white worm cultures. Those might entice it as well.

I bought a wild mandarin a year and a half ago and started with culturing white worms. I stopped my culture at a certain point because it didn't need to be hand fed anymore since I have plenty of pods. I still hatch live baby brine about once or twice a week to feed other things and give a small pipette spray towards my mandarin with the pumps off.

I did something stupid with mine, I put it in observational "quarantine" and just ran prazi for flukes. Then at I think 6 days I put her in my backup 10g which has sand, rocks, softy corals, etc. I didn't run any other medication since I read their slime/mucus coat helps prevent ich. After two months there I put her in the display and haven't had any issues. In the quarantine tank, I didn't see her do much eating or anything either. It was a small risk to skip other steps, but I put her in a tank with more natural habitat features and she started eating then. I say it was stupid because I skipped a lot of protocol, but I only had one fish in the 10g at the time, however I still didn't want to put her in the display since I had fish I wouldn't want to lose.

Wilds can be finicky from what I've heard, but I've had nothing but smooth sailing after I had put her in the 10g. I also bought a rough looking mandarin because I thought she looked like she wouldn't make it in the LFS and I thought I could save her which I did. I did track down white worms the day I purchased the mandarin though.

 

[alicia24]

I'd check any freshwater forums for people with white worm cultures. Those might entice it as well.

I bought a wild mandarin a year and a half ago and started with culturing white worms. I stopped my culture at a certain point because it didn't need to be hand fed anymore since I have plenty of pods. I still hatch live baby brine about once or twice a week to feed other things and give a small pipette spray towards my mandarin with the pumps off.

I did something stupid with mine, I put it in observational "quarantine" and just ran prazi for flukes. Then at I think 6 days I put her in my backup 10g which has sand, rocks, softy corals, etc. I didn't run any other medication since I read their slime/mucus coat helps prevent ich. After two months there I put her in the display and haven't had any issues. In the quarantine tank, I didn't see her do much eating or anything either. It was a small risk to skip other steps, but I put her in a tank with more natural habitat features and she started eating then. I say it was stupid because I skipped a lot of protocol, but I only had one fish in the 10g at the time, however I still didn't want to put her in the display since I had fish I wouldn't want to lose.

Wilds can be finicky from what I've heard, but I've had nothing but smooth sailing after I had put her in the 10g. I also bought a rough looking mandarin because I thought she looked like she wouldn't make it in the LFS and I thought I could save her which I did. I did track down white worms the day I purchased the mandarin though.

Thank you so much for replying/sharing your experience! I was thinking about white worms. Also curious if adding to dt will help but I'm fallow for another week so I'm not willing to risk that. It acting totally normal when I first added it to qt it was when I started ttm it completely changed behavior.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I've noticed it's gils flare in and out when breathing and breathing kind of irradictely in this video. Is there anything you could think I try trreating him with if it is gill related? I did prazi x 2, ttm, metro, doing kanaplex now on a whim. Thank you so much I just feel very bad for him seeing him like this for so long. I still havent seen him eat and he barely moves doesnt flutter his fins much.

In this video, the fish is breathing much faster, and very deeply. I wonder if your first video got slowed down during processing or something?

Prazi and metronidazole are two possible treatments. The TTM and kanaplex won't do anything for gill disease.

Since you did prazi 2x, lets rule out flukes for now. How did you dose the metronidazole, and how many times?

Jay

 

[alicia24]

In this video, the fish is breathing much faster, and very deeply. I wonder if your first video got slowed down during processing or something?

Prazi and metronidazole are two possible treatments. The TTM and kanaplex won't do anything for gill disease.

Since you did prazi 2x, lets rule out flukes for now. How did you dose the metronidazole, and how many times?

Jay

Thank you! It could have! I noticed the breathing was more fast this morning. I did metro 5 times total once every 48 hours one scoop in a 5 gallon. Please let me know how many more doses I should do. He's in a 6.8 gallon now.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you! It could have! I noticed the breathing was more fast this morning. I did metro 5 times total once every 48 hours one scoop in a 5 gallon. Please let me know how many more doses I should do. He's in a 6.8 gallon now.

Five doses of metro should have worked if the issue was treatable with that drug.

What is the ammonia level of the tank?
Does the3 tank have good aeration?

 

[alicia24]

Five doses of metro should have worked if the issue was treatable with that drug.

What is the ammonia level of the tank?
Does the3 tank have good aeration?

I will say I did it each time on the first or second day of the ttm so switched water every 3 days but I think that I read that was sufficient exposure time? Same with the prazi. If you think its worth to redose let me know please. I have one air stone in there. When I try to add a pump it blows him around. The ammonia has been reading zero every day I'm using prime just incase but there's a piece of live rock in there. & dosing microbacter 7 daily. He would still breath like that even when I put him in a fresh tank during ttm. I cant help but to think this is all related to the h202 bath but I cant imagine it traumatized him that much. When I put him in there he lost his mucuous coat or shedded it and flipped over in the water. The water was 10 degrees colder (my mistake). That was almost 3 weeks ago though. Prior to that he was very healthy active and eatting. I appreciate your time very much thank you!!