Manganese, Molybdenum, and Vanadium; are these useful additives?

[Js.Aqua.Project]

I just performed my first Triton test (was gifted a test) and came back with:

Mn: 0.00 µg/l (Set 2.00 µg/)
Mo: 11.00 µg/l (Set 12.00 µg/l)
V: 0.99 µg/l (Set 1.20 µg/l)

I have read the Triton "Help" tab for recommended corrections to these levels and what they are supposed to help.

My questions are:

1. Are people finding these useful to dose? (what are you noticing change in your aquarium/coral?)
2. What product(s) are you using to dose?
3. What concentration(s) do you aim for? Natural sea levels?

Here is the full report if anyone has other input:
https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/52506/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

They certainly may be.

Here's my take on them from my Triton test:

http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

Molybdenum (Mo). Molybdenum is low, and if that is true, it’s an interesting and potentially important result. I don’t typically add any trace elements. I may consider adding some molybdenum as it is biologically important.

Manganese (Mn). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of manganese (0.17 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.12 µg/L. Detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing, but I have less confidence that this one is really seriously depleted since it is so close to the LOD. But Mn is biologically important and I will consider it.

Vanadium (V). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of vanadium (1.8 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.9 µg/L. Still, detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing.

 

[sghera64]

They certainly may be.

Here's my take on them from my Triton test:

http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

Molybdenum (Mo). Molybdenum is low, and if that is true, it’s an interesting and potentially important result. I don’t typically add any trace elements. I may consider adding some molybdenum as it is biologically important.

Manganese (Mn). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of manganese (0.17 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.12 µg/L. Detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing, but I have less confidence that this one is really seriously depleted since it is so close to the LOD. But Mn is biologically important and I will consider it.

Vanadium (V). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of vanadium (1.8 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.9 µg/L. Still, detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing.

Is it possible that these are merely depleted from the water column by means other than biological consumption/necessity and rather by simple inorganic “sinking”? One possibility would be at the point kalkwasser is added - a very high pH locale that could precipitate metals.

 

[Jason mack]

I’m also following triton and dosing all the trace elements they suggest , I’m using tritons own trace elements , now I’m no chemistry buff , so I just follow all the advice they give me , my tank has never looked beter , I can’t say if it’s because of the dosing or just pure luck , but I know that since I’ve started following their advice my tank has gone from strength too strength ..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Is it possible that these are merely depleted from the water column by means other than biological consumption/necessity and rather by simple inorganic “sinking”? One possibility would be at the point kalkwasser is added - a very high pH locale that could precipitate metals.

If they are low, the reason doesn’t really matter. They are biologically important for photosynthetic organisms. [emoji3]

 

[sghera64]

If they are low, the reason doesn’t really matter. They are biologically important for photosynthetic organisms. [emoji3]

It’s weird to think of corals in our systems needing such metals in their metabolism. But I just checked the label on my Centrum and it seems Pfizer thinks humans do too. Centrum contains nickel, silicon, Vanadium, Manganese, chromium, and moly. Maybe we humans are not far away from hosting zooxanthellae in our body.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

They certainly may be.

Here's my take on them from my Triton test:

http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

Molybdenum (Mo). Molybdenum is low, and if that is true, it’s an interesting and potentially important result. I don’t typically add any trace elements. I may consider adding some molybdenum as it is biologically important.

Manganese (Mn). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of manganese (0.17 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.12 µg/L. Detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing, but I have less confidence that this one is really seriously depleted since it is so close to the LOD. But Mn is biologically important and I will consider it.

Vanadium (V). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of vanadium (1.8 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.9 µg/L. Still, detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing.

After reading your article I now have another question: what are good sources for Molybdenum?

I personally use Red Sea products, including Coral Colors ( formally Trace Colors) and Coral Pro salt for my tank. I know Vanadium is in part D and Manganese is in part C, but don't see Molybdenum mentioned anywhere.

I also noticed my Iodine read 0, which I found interesting as Coral Colors A includes Iodine...I dose according to my Calcium so I currently dose .6ml of each Coral Colors every night.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It’s weird to think of corals in our systems needing such metals in their metabolism. But I just checked the label on my Centrum and it seems Pfizer thinks humans do too. Centrum contains nickel, silicon, Vanadium, Manganese, chromium, and moly. Maybe we humans are not far away from hosting zooxanthellae in our body.

It is well established what metals do. Most often, they are part of the active site of an enzyme or other biomolecule.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

After reading your article I now have another question: what are good sources for Molybdenum?

I personally use Red Sea products, including Coral Colors ( formally Trace Colors) and Coral Pro salt for my tank. I know Vanadium is in part D and Manganese is in part C, but don't see Molybdenum mentioned anywhere.

I also noticed my Iodine read 0, which I found interesting as Coral Colors A includes Iodine...I dose according to my Calcium so I currently dose .6ml of each Coral Colors every night.

It almost certainly is present in that product, but other sources would be a DIY or a commercial additive for it specifically:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dosing-trace-diy-possible.369105/#post-4555787

NOPOX may also have it.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

It almost certainly is present in that product, but other sources would be a DIY or a commercial additive for it specifically:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dosing-trace-diy-possible.369105/#post-4555787

NOPOX may also have it.

Thanks for the info, I will look in to doing this.

I emailed Red Sea yesterday, the rep that replied said that Mo is not an ingredient of NoPox. I replied asking if it is included as one of the 18 bioactive elements in part D, it is not listed as being there.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the NOPOX info. I hope it is reliable. Some answers I have gotten from a Red Sea Tech Rep were not correct.

 

[zweebe]

Hello Randy,

Is the moly dosing a good thing for corals?

 

[zweebe]

Hello Randy,

Is the moly dosing a good thing for corals?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Corals certainly use molybdenum, and unless they are getting enough via solid foods, they must get it from the water.

But I do not know what level they need or "prefer" to have in the water.

 

[Mark Waltermire]

Do we really know what all 18 elements are that are in the coral colors part D? I dose the part C for iron, while my potassium and iodine (A and B) measure in the acceptable range. I don't usually dose part c though because I don't know what's in it. I'd love to see someone send in a triton vile full of it to find out what it really contains.

 

[jeremevans]

I recently recieved my first test results which showed 0 detected Mo an Mo.

I was about to try some dosing and then got cold feet. While the use of the trace elements by living organisms in our tanks is supported with science there could be significant risk if overdosed.

I then looked at the pellet foods and the seaweed I'm feeding and noticed that there are trace elements in them. That makes me comfortable that some levels are being dosed indirectly and therefore levels are not really 0 in my tank.

So, this thread makes me think about dosing again but is it worth the risk of overdosing?

For anyone who doses: how often and how much? I have idea what the uptake rate is.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I recently recieved my first test results which showed 0 detected Mo an Mo.

I was about to try some dosing and then got cold feet. While the use of the trace elements by living organisms in our tanks is supported with science there could be significant risk if overdosed.

I then looked at the pellet foods and the seaweed I'm feeding and noticed that there are trace elements in them. That makes me comfortable that some levels are being dosed indirectly and therefore levels are not really 0 in my tank.

So, this thread makes me think about dosing again but is it worth the risk of overdosing?

For anyone who doses: how often and how much? I have idea what the uptake rate is.

I showed in a different thread that a few dry grams of chaetomorpha growth will remove all the manganese from 100 gallons of NSW.

You are right that foods also add a lot. In the end, foods may not be enough and most people dosing reasonable doses of trace elements do not usually get big overdoses in the water when measured.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

I recently recieved my first test results which showed 0 detected Mo an Mo.

I was about to try some dosing and then got cold feet. While the use of the trace elements by living organisms in our tanks is supported with science there could be significant risk if overdosed.

I then looked at the pellet foods and the seaweed I'm feeding and noticed that there are trace elements in them. That makes me comfortable that some levels are being dosed indirectly and therefore levels are not really 0 in my tank.

So, this thread makes me think about dosing again but is it worth the risk of overdosing?

For anyone who doses: how often and how much? I have idea what the uptake rate is.

I follow the Red Sea "Mixed Reef Recipe" which includes daily dosing of the 4 Trace Colors at 1/10 of the daily calcium dose. Currently I am dosing 6ml Ca/day which corresponds to .6ml of each Trace Color each day. With this regular dosing nearly everything in my tank is in "range" via the Triton test except where noted previously.

 

[jeremevans]

I showed in a different thread that a few dry grams of chaetomorpha growth will remove all the manganese from 100 gallons of NSW.

You are right that foods also add a lot. In the end, foods may not be enough and most people dosing reasonable doses of trace elements do not usually get big overdoses in the water when measured.

Hearing about chaeto consuming Mn has me thinking I will dose. I have lots of chaeto and caulerpa to assist with nitrate export and regularly trim it.

So, I'm convinced my Mn is zero or near zero now and that overdosing isn't as concerning since I have an export mechanism.

Thanks Randy! I have read many of your posts and learned a lot from them.

Probably worth adding that I do very infrequent water changes on my system and currently dose major and some minor elements. My system is about 275g volume in total.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hearing about chaeto consuming Mn has me thinking I will dose. I have lots of chaeto and caulerpa to assist with nitrate export and regularly trim it.

So, I'm convinced my Mn is zero or near zero now and that overdosing isn't as concerning since I have an export mechanism.

Thanks Randy! I have read many of your posts and learned a lot from them.

Probably worth adding that I do very infrequent water changes on my system and currently dose major and some minor elements. My system is about 275g volume in total.

Thanks.

Here's a copy and paste of that other post:

From:

https://akademiai.com/doi/pdf/10.1007/BF02345918

Chaetomorpha (two species: linum and antennina) had 20-90 ug Mn per g of dry weight. Say an average of 50 ug/g.

In a 100 gallon aquarium at NSW Mn levels (165 ng/L), there will be 378.5 l X 165 ng/l = 62.5 ug of Mn

To consume all of that would take 62.5 ug / 50 ug/g = 1.25 g.

Thus, 1.25 g (dry weight) of Chaeto will take out all of the Mn.

FWIW, a second paper shows a factor of 5-10 lower Mn in chaeto, but it is still a lot, with 1o grams taking out all the Mn from 100 gallons.
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/b58-026#.WrpvEYjwYdV