Marine velvet and hydrogen peroxide.

[Ubans13]

So I currently have marine velvet in my DT. All fish have been move to a QT where they are currently being treated with copper. I have lost one tang but others seem to be doing ok.

Been reading a lot of threads about dosing hydrogen peroxide to Reef system while marine velvet has been in them. Few results of beating the parasite with only hydrogen peroxide. Hydrogen peroxide really goes after gram positive infections and oxygenates the water all at the same time. Haven't read any ill affects of fish losing apatite which would help us keep them healthy and easy to feed some meds and vitamins.

Hydrogen peroxide is dosed quite often to try and beat many pest algae with no ill effects except to some crustaceans.

Now as I mentioned I have my fish in QT with copramine. I would like to try the hydrogen peroxide as well. Does anyone have any idea if dosing some hydrogen peroxide with the copramine treatment would be bad? Will the two react in a bad way and just straight kill the fish. The fish do not seem to be in a losing battle as of yet. Just dealing with the stress of the QT.

Would really like to hear everyone thoughts!

 

[jenreefer]

Very interesting topic, following.

 

[nervousmonkey]

Interesting to me as well. Following. @Humblefish @melypr1985 , what do y'all think?

Personally I would not dose H202 with Cupramine. Copper is already hard on fish as it is. Medications are not meant to be mixed, although there are always exceptions. Granted, H202 is not "medication" as traditionally defined, but I don't know why you would want to add it to the QT. It doesn't oxygenate the water as much as an air pump and a stone does, so I would just leave your fish be; they will be fine without adding any more stressful additives to their water column. Velvet is terrible, but give your DT enough time fallow and you'll be fine.

 

[Ubans13]

Was definitely going to start and dose the DT while fallow just to be sure and just see what changes it makes to my system.

Another thing is the velvet was brought into my system from a new coral. So should we be dipping in something like a peroxide bath on top Of the normal coral dips.

 

[Ubans13]

I don't really have room or three tanks.

 

[jenreefer]

With my ongoing Velvet saga, my brain is in overdrive with ways to minimize the possibility of adding any unwanted organisms to the tank. My efforts were valiant, but in the end futile, so now I have to reassess and determine if it is even possible to ever prevent such problems. With the use of H2O2, I am wondering if you could add another layer of "protection" for the tank. I may have to set up some experiments. Living in a big city, I am sure there are no shortages of velvet infested fish to put into the mix. hmmmmm, brain is churning.

 

[nervousmonkey]

Was definitely going to start and dose the DT while fallow just to be sure and just see what changes it makes to my system.

Another thing is the velvet was brought into my system from a new coral. So should we be dipping in something like a peroxide bath on top Of the normal coral dips.

There are a number of dips for corals, Bayer seems to be the most effective. What are you using? BTW, one of my tanks is still getting over a velvet infection, they are horrible aren't they?

I am unsure if H202 would kill velvet. @brandon429 is an expert on H202 dosing, but I don't think anyone has ever done a study to see if it would kill velvet. Maybe given enough time? @twilliard has also dedicated his work to understanding, identifying and eliminating parasites. Todd, what do you think? Would H202 kill velvet in a dip without harming the corals? I don't think that we could dip a coral in H202 that long without it causing tissue damage, as it is non-discriminatory.

I know I've called a lot of people into this conversation, but I think it is a good discussion worth following up on. If the OP got velvet from a coral he dipped, what else could be done, or could have been done?
@Diesel ?

 

[Ubans13]

I would like to believe that with the right dilutions used as a dip it would kill any ich or velvet bacteria. I use the coral revive for my current dip until it is all used up and will be switching to Bayer as well. We know from many people using it to control algae this it has little effect on corals at the proper dilution.

 

[Ubans13]

I would love to see what it does to the bacteria under a microscope. BUT I have no access to one. Definitely got the same of bacteria though!

 

[jenreefer]

I dip all corals in Bayer with no adverse effect, but I doubt that it is affecting velvet organism. To be effective, the organism must have a nervous system, which to my understanding, Dino's do not. Someone correct me if I am wrong, will go read more and make sure that what I am saying is correct.

 

[Ubans13]

Yes bayer only works with a nervous system. I found this in Wikipedia

Hydrogen peroxide can be used for the sterilization of various surfaces,[38] including surgical tools[39] and may be deployed as a vapour (VHP) for room sterilization.[40] H2O2 demonstrates broad-spectrum efficacy against viruses, bacteria, yeasts, and bacterial spores.[41] In general, greater activity is seen against Gram-positive than Gram-negative bacteria; however, the presence of catalase or other peroxidases in these organisms can increase tolerance in the presence of lower concentrations.[42] Higher concentrations of H2O2 (10 to 30%) and longer contact times are required for sporicidal activity.[43]

With marine velvet be gram positive it should work. Should

 

[twilliard]

I personally have not done any work with velvet as I lack fish knowledge.

 

[Deinonych]

With marine velvet be gram positive it should work. Should

Marine velvet is a dinoflagellate (Amyloodinium ocellatum), not a bacterium, so gram positive/negative attributes don't apply. As far as treatments go, Chloroquine phosphate is the preferred medication for velvet, with copper being an option as well. If you're trying to rid your DT of the parasite, a fallow period of at least 6 weeks is necessary. I personally wouldn't bother dosing H2O2 into the DT as it may have negative consequences to the biofilter.

 

[Ubans13]

I know all the standard methods. Currently am fallow. Just trying to think out of the box. May be a way to treat ur DT without having to chase fish for hrs and not take rock scapes apart to catch all fish.

 

[melypr1985]

If the OP got velvet from a coral he dipped, what else could be done, or could have been done?

QT all corals and inverts for 76 days. That's the only way to guarantee that these diseases won't get into the system. Dips won't kill the tomont stage of these parasites as not even copper will do that.

I'll say that if you go this route of treating your fish with hydrogen peroxide instead of copper, you should take the copper out right now. to have a good experiment they shouldn't have been exposed to copper first - this will skew your data. IMO if they fish are doing fine in the copper, then go ahead and save their lives that way. Find a fish with velvet at the LFS and try your experiment on that one. This way you can start-to-finish treat him with the H2O2 and get real results, whatever they end up being.

 

[twilliard]

Didnt @Russ265 already do this with a pair of hippo's treating with H2O2 from start to finish?
??where is Russ??

 

[melypr1985]

Didnt @Russ265 already do this with a pair of hippo's treating with H2O2 from start to finish?
??where is Russ??

Shoot. I think so? Hopefully he chimes in here.

 

[Diesel]

I know I've called a lot of people into this conversation, but I think it is a good discussion worth following up on. If the OP got velvet from a coral he dipped, what else could be done, or could have been done?
@Diesel ?

If you ask me I would not only QT fish but with corals the same.
A dip isn't enough, it will kill most of the active pest on there but not the eggs, related to this thread a decease takes a fallow time without a host.
Keeping your corals in a fallow QT for the time recommended you should be fine.
I know it's like being in this hobby isn't anymore just a tank but you need as well a whole fish room with it or other wise one day it can be a disaster.
My whole deal of having a fish room is just that, is that over rated............ I don't think so as we will experience more and more problems down the road as the competition is getting larger and all wants to turn around their goods ASAP.
I don't blame any of them but the last straw is drawn by the hobbyist, do you or do you not??
Would've, Could've and Should've who makes that call??

 

[twilliard]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/petco-purple-tang-rescue-action.249943/page-2
Here it is H2O2 starts on page 2

 

[Humblefish]

I do not know if copper + H2O2 can be safely combined. Never done it before.

However, you can dose most antibiotics in conjunction with copper if you are trying to treat a bacterial infection.