Marine Velvet- What Now?

[NigeltheBold]

I have a saltwater tank that has been established for about 6 months now. It's a Red Sea Max E260 system with a protein skimmer and two Reef90 LEDs. Lots of live sand and live rock. It cycled well, and parameters have been steady (I can post them if it would help). I bought a blue tang last week, acclimated it to the tank and added it on Wednesday morning. It was doing well... eating, swimming around, etc. and it was getting along with my other fish (copperband, ocellaris clown, spotted mandarin). Physical condition looked pretty good, although I didn't look super closely because it was a fast swimmer. Yesterday, I noticed some very small white specks, almost looked like dust particles on his body. He occasionally scratched himself against the rocks or sand. So I looked up those symptoms online and determined that it was Marine Velvet. I also read that Velvet can quickly spread and wipe out an entire tank, so I removed the tang from the tank immediately and put him in a bucket with some tank water. Unfortunately he died soon after that (I took him out at night and didn't know what else to do). I figured he would probably die anyway.

It's only been a day since I removed the sick tang, but my other fish look totally fine- I haven't seen any signs of Velvet whatsoever (before or after the tang had symptoms). They're eating like normal and I haven't seen any of them scratching or breathing heavily. They had been in the tank for a couple of weeks before I added the tang. So my question is, are the rest of my fish doomed? If the velvet came from the tang, does this mean that it has already spread into my tank? Or, if it was already in my tank to begin with, does that mean that the existing fish are somehow immune to it? I'm not sure where to go from here.

Please don't lecture me about starting a good quarantine regimen- I've learned my lesson and I'm working on it. My goal now is to stop the spread of Velvet and try to salvage the rest of the fish. I cannot use copper medications because I have inverts. I read that non-copper medications for Velvet don't work. I've also read that I should start a fallow period of 6-7 weeks to make sure the velvet is gone, but since I already had fish in the tank, I'm not sure what to do.

 

[Samina]

I’m sorry your going through this, I feel your pain. This happened to me as well and I learned quickly too.

Unfortunately, the only answer to eradicate it from your display is to remove all fish and fish corpses. Remove all fish into a QT. The display should be fallow for 76 days to be safe and fully eradicate everything. Here is a link that can give you more information about the process and parasite.

Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum) What You Need To Know: * Fast killing parasite capable of wiping out most of your fish in just a matter of days. Sometimes there are survivors, sometimes not. * Can be treated in a quarantine tank using Chloroquine phosphate or Copper. A 5...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[NigeltheBold]

I’m sorry your going through this, I feel your pain. This happened to me as well and I learned quickly too.

Unfortunately, the only answer to eradicate it from your display is to remove all fish and fish corpses. Remove all fish into a QT. The display should be fallow for 76 days to be safe and fully eradicate everything. Here is a link that can give you more information about the process and parasite.

Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum) What You Need To Know: * Fast killing parasite capable of wiping out most of your fish in just a matter of days. Sometimes there are survivors, sometimes not. * Can be treated in a quarantine tank using Chloroquine phosphate or Copper. A 5...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for your quick response. And thanks for sharing the article.

I guess I'm having trouble understanding why I need to remove the fish that don't have the parasite. If Velvet is present in the tank, and they aren't affected, why do they need to be removed in order to eradicate the Velvet? According to what I've read, if the Velvet doesn't have a host, it dies after a few weeks. The unaffected fish are not serving as hosts, so won't the Velvet die-off eventually, as long as I don't add any new fish for several weeks?

 

[Jon Fishman]

Sounds like Ick...... why are you leaning towards Velvet?

 

[4FordFamily]

Thanks for your quick response. And thanks for sharing the article.

I guess I'm having trouble understanding why I need to remove the fish that don't have the parasite. If Velvet is present in the tank, and they aren't affected, why do they need to be removed in order to eradicate the Velvet? According to what I've read, if the Velvet doesn't have a host, it dies after a few weeks. The unaffected fish are not serving as hosts, so won't the Velvet die-off eventually, as long as I don't add any new fish for several weeks?

Because velvet is present. Some fish can actually fight off velvet, in rare occasions or if they're very healthy with thick slime coats (often wrasse, sometimes gobies, but others as well in rare cases). Let's say you're very lucky and all of your fish are resistant to velvet -- new additions will not be so lucky. This is something you'll battle moving forward.

In short, unless you're done stocking (and likely even if you're not), this needs to be addressed.

I know this isn't what you want to read, and I certainly won't lecture you. I too learned the hard way. Several times.

 

[NigeltheBold]

Sounds like Ick...... why are you leaning towards Velvet?

I've read that ick has larger and fewer spots than velvet. This looked like more of a dusting, whereas ick is more like white spots that are fewer in number.

 

[Jon Fishman]

How long after removal, in bucket, before it died?

 

[JumboShrimp]

@4FordFamily helped me through three (3) bouts of Marine Velvet— I went about 80 days each time just for good measure. I still have nightmares, but all is well now. Whew! ;Headphone

 

[NigeltheBold]

Because velvet is present. Some fish can actually fight off velvet, in rare occasions or if they're very healthy with thick slime coats (often wrasse, sometimes gobies, but others as well in rare cases). Let's say you're very lucky and all of your fish are resistant to velvet -- new additions will not be so lucky. This is something you'll battle moving forward.

In short, unless you're done stocking (and likely even if you're not), this needs to be addressed.

I know this isn't what you want to read, and I certainly won't lecture you. I too learned the hard way. Several times.

Thanks for the reply. I understand what you're saying. There is velvet in the tank and it needs to be eradicated. But what I was getting at was if the existing fish are fighting off the velvet, then the velvet doesn't have a host, correct? And if the velvet doesn't have a host, it will die off after several weeks. Correct?

So given your response, my logic is incorrect. Are you saying that the existing fish could eventually succumb to the velvet even though they're fighting it off right now? Or are you saying that they're still hosts even though they aren't showing symptoms? Or both?

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

The existing fish can still act as hosts, allowing the parasites to complete their lifecylce. When new fish are added, or when a stressors occurs the parasites will be able to gain the upper hand and an outbreak will occur.

 

[JumboShrimp]

“Blue Tangs.” We should start a Petition to rename them “Blue Marine Velvets”

 

[NigeltheBold]

The existing fish can still act as hosts, allowing the parasites to complete their lifecylce. When new fish are added, or when a stressors occurs the parasites will be able to gain the upper hand and an outbreak will occur.

Okay, that answers my question. I didn't think a fish with an immunity to velvet could still host velvet. Given that info, my only option is to remove all fish and wait 72 days, right? There are no invert-safe medications for velvet, right?

Looks like Rally is supposed to treat velvet and it's supposedly invert-safe. But it looks like it doesn't work very well. Same with Polyp Lab Medic. There's nothing else to try, right?

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

There currently is no reef safe treatment that will eradicate ich or velvet.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Depending on the arrangement of your rocks and corals, and quantity and type of fish, you might want to use the “low tide” method to get the fish out. Works like a charm.

 

[4FordFamily]

The existing fish can still act as hosts, allowing the parasites to complete their lifecylce. When new fish are added, or when a stressors occurs the parasites will be able to gain the upper hand and an outbreak will occur.

This

Okay, that answers my question. I didn't think a fish with an immunity to velvet could still host velvet. Given that info, my only option is to remove all fish and wait 72 days, right? There are no invert-safe medications for velvet, right?

Looks like Rally is supposed to treat velvet and it's supposedly invert-safe. But it looks like it doesn't work very well. Same with Polyp Lab Medic. There's nothing else to try, right?

No shortcuts, unfortunately. That’s essentially snake oil, though a very small select few report successes, the vast majority lose fish and start back at square one. My hypothesis is that they credit the snake oil products when fish resistance was doing the job for a while.

 

[Qasimja]

i wonder if there will ever be a product that can kill velvet and ich thats reef safe i guess maybe never

 

[Terri Caton]

Reef Medic and Rally are water conditioners. They help your fish fight off Ich but that's all. They don't actually kill Ich.

 

[Tamberav]

Okay, that answers my question. I didn't think a fish with an immunity to velvet could still host velvet. Given that info, my only option is to remove all fish and wait 72 days, right? There are no invert-safe medications for velvet, right?

Looks like Rally is supposed to treat velvet and it's supposedly invert-safe. But it looks like it doesn't work very well. Same with Polyp Lab Medic. There's nothing else to try, right?

By immune they mean built up immunity as in resistance so their infection is at low levels...it does not mean that they don't have it. Therefore they can continue to infect new fish or if their immunity lowers from some outside stressor they can succumb.

Also since it's only been one day the velvet could still be multiplying and may in fact reach levels to kill your current fish. Some fish die with zero symptoms as it infects the gills and asphyxiates them.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

Because velvet is present. Some fish can actually fight off velvet, in rare occasions or if they're very healthy with thick slime coats (often wrasse, sometimes gobies, but others as well in rare cases). Let's say you're very lucky and all of your fish are resistant to velvet -- new additions will not be so lucky. This is something you'll battle moving forward.

In short, unless you're done stocking (and likely even if you're not), this needs to be addressed.

I know this isn't what you want to read, and I certainly won't lecture you. I too learned the hard way. Several times.

Velvet is a nasty parasite and I have not known a tank infected with it that was able to maintain resistance. Typically fish start spontaneously dying one by one. Resistance is truly rare. Good luck on treatment, it seems daunting but once you go through it you will have a parasite free home for your current fish and future additions.

 

[4FordFamily]

i wonder if there will ever be a product that can kill velvet and ich thats reef safe i guess maybe never

Unfortunately, the same things that kill velvet and ich (inverts) are thereby designed to kill the other tank inverts as well— including and especially coral.