MarinePure 'still' leaching aluminium?

[Azedenkae]

Hi guys,

When I left the saltwater side of the hobby a while ago, MarinePure was allegedly leaching aluminium.

What's the status on that now? Did we ever figure it to be true or otherwise?

 

[arking_mark]

Hi guys,

When I left the saltwater side of the hobby a while ago, MarinePure was allegedly leaching aluminium.

What's the status on that now? Did we ever figure it to be true or otherwise?

ICP High Aluminum help

@Randy Holmes-Farley I Just got back my 1st Triton ICP test and the Aluminum was identified as high (165 micrograms/l). Reading through the threads, the only source I can think of maybe the Marinepure blocks I am using in my sump as several threads indicate that 'white' media may leach...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think it was unquestionably true in some cases, and probably still is but do not know for sure. Different batches may release different amounts, they may have improved/altered the manufacturing, and there were rumors of counterfeit batches.

IMO, I see little need to use aluminum products in most reef tanks anyway.

 

[Azedenkae]

ICP High Aluminum help

@Randy Holmes-Farley I Just got back my 1st Triton ICP test and the Aluminum was identified as high (165 micrograms/l). Reading through the threads, the only source I can think of maybe the Marinepure blocks I am using in my sump as several threads indicate that 'white' media may leach...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks, that was very informative. I am still reading through it, but good to have a better image of the product.

I think it was unquestionably true in some cases, and probably still is but do not know for sure. Different batches may release different amounts, they may have improved/altered the manufacturing, and there were rumors of counterfeit batches.

IMO, I see little need to use aluminum products in most reef tanks anyway.

Thanks for the info, good to know how it may have changed over time. Yeah there are a lot of MarinePure-like products sold all the time that I can search up, so would not be surprised actual counterfeits are/were around.

 

[CarltonCay]

Most of the pros use MarinePure.

There's been tests and studies done. Stop using made up theories.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Most of the pros use MarinePure.

There's been tests and studies done. Stop using made up theories.

lol

I've seen many tests. I come to a different conclusion than you do.

You use the term "made up theories" as an obviously derogatory term, but all theories are made up to explain experimental observations. In this case, there was a clear correlation between highly elevate aluminum in reef tanks and certain types of media.

Do you have a theory you have made up to explain elevated aluminum in aquaria that use aluminum-containing media of various sorts? Some folks even reported that their Marinepure was crumbling to bits in their aquaria.

I fought these sorts of "tests" for a long time with Seachem, who claimed that aluminum oxide could not and does not release any aluminum. My own experiments, even when performed under conditions that Seachem specified, showed the Phosguard did release aluminum in some form.

Same goes for silicate release from silica sand. Lots of people used pseudo science to claim it was impossible. Simple looking at the published solubility and taking some measurements easily proved otherwise.

to avoid mischaracterization of my claims, I'm not saying that Marinepure is the cause of any specific organism problems in typical aquaria. I'm saying that the evidence suggests that: " it was unquestionably true in some cases, and probably still is but do not know for sure. Different batches may release different amounts, they may have improved/altered the manufacturing, and there were rumors of counterfeit batches."

 

[arking_mark]

lol

I've seen many tests. I come to a different conclusion than you do.

You use the term "made up theories" as an obviously derogatory term, but all theories are made up to explain experimental observations. In this case, there was a clear correlation between highly elevate aluminum in reef tanks and certain types of media.

Do you have a theory you have made up to explain elevated aluminum in aquaria that use aluminum-containing media of various sorts? Some folks even reported that their Marinepure was crumbling to bits in their aquaria.

I fought these sorts of "tests" for a long time with Seachem, who claimed that aluminum oxide could not and does not release any aluminum. My own experiments, even when performed under conditions that Seachem specified, showed the Phosguard did release aluminum in some form.

Same goes for silicate release from silica sand. Lots of people used pseudo science to claim it was impossible. Simple looking at the published solubility and taking some measurements easily proved otherwise.

to avoid mischaracterization of my claims, I'm not saying that Marinepure is the cause of any specific organism problems in typical aquaria. I'm saying that the evidence suggests that: " it was unquestionably true in some cases, and probably still is but do not know for sure. Different batches may release different amounts, they may have improved/altered the manufacturing, and there were rumors of counterfeit batches."

One thing to note is that Marinpure put out a video discussing this and states that the ICP process doesn't distinguish between inert and free Al. So high Al may not be inert Al.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

One thing to note is that Marinpure put out a video discussing this and states that the ICP process doesn't distinguish between inert and free Al. So high Al may not be inert Al.

It is certainly true that ICP does not distinguish chemical form and, depending on how it is performed (prefiltration, centrifuging, etc.), may not distinguish very fine particulates or colloids from individual ions. Seachem made a big deal out of this as well. In that case, I filtered samples to remove particulates above 0.2 microns or so, but particulates below that size may still exist.

I do not recall ever claiming that Marinepure was toxic or negatively impacted organisms, but the characterization of particulates as "inert" implies a level of understanding that is not there. Many "inert" particulates that do not dissolve can cause serious issues to people. Asbestos, silica dust, etc. There's no a priori reason to assume particulates could not possibly impact organisms such as filter feeders, whether they might clog up the mechanisms (such as sponges).

Microplastics in the ocean and its ability to cause problems for organisms is an active area of research in many labs. Thus, an "inert" particulate is not a get out of jail free card.

 

[arking_mark]

It is certainly true that ICP does not distinguish chemical form and, depending on how it is performed (prefiltration, centrifuging, etc.), may not distinguish very fine particulates or colloids from individual ions. Seachem made a big deal out of this as well. In that case, I filtered samples to remove particulates above 0.2 microns or so, but particulates below that size may still exist.

I do not recall ever claiming that Marinepure was toxic or negatively impacted organisms, but the characterization of particulates as "inert" implies a level of understanding that is not there. Many "inert" particulates that do not dissolve can cause serious issues to people. Asbestos, silica dust, etc. There's no a priori reason to assume particulates could not possibly impact organisms such as filter feeders, whether they might clog up the mechanisms (such as sponges).

Microplastics in the ocean and its ability to cause problems for organisms is an active area of research in many labs. Thus, an "inert" particulate is not a get out of jail free card.

Agreed. I guess the larger question is how do we in the reefing community distinguish fact from fiction and validate or invalidate these findings.

I love the fact that you have done these types of tests and share your results. I enjoy some of the BRS videos as well. I wonder if there should be a independent group that would verify products and claims.