Marshall Island Rock Discussion about Radiation

[lilzbra]

So I have been watching a few documentaries on the Marshall Islands, and how they were used for testing the H-Bomb prior to WWII. They detonated hundreds of nukes during the period of testing which scarred the landscape, and poisoned the island resources and people.

Many of us old school reefers prided ourselves in our collection of Marshall Islands live rock back in the 1980's and 1990's when it was imported in plenty to the states. As I reflect back to my reefing past running a reef tank full of around 150 lbs of this stuff for about 15 years of my early childhood and young adult life, I begin to wonder if I was actually exposed to any radiation. I sold all of the rock back in the late 1990's while I was moving (huge regret now!) so I have none to test. However, if anyone in the community has access to true Marshall Island live rock and a Geiger counter it would be interesting to hear the results.

I have access to a Geiger counter, but sadly no Marshall Island rock anymore...

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

So I have been watching a few documentaries on the Marshall Islands, and how they were used for testing the H-Bomb prior to WWII. They detonated hundreds of nukes during the period of testing which scarred the landscape, and poisoned the island resources and people.

Many of us old school reefers prided ourselves in our collection of Marshall Islands live rock back in the 1980's and 1990's when it was imported in plenty to the states. As I reflect back to my reefing past running a reef tank full of around 150 lbs of this stuff for about 15 years of my early childhood and young adult life, I begin to wonder if I was actually exposed to any radiation. I sold all of the rock back in the late 1990's while I was moving (huge regret now!) so I have none to test. However, if anyone in the community has access to true Marshall Island live rock and a Geiger counter it would be interesting to hear the results.

I have access to a Geiger counter, but sadly no Marshall Island rock anymore...

I think there are far greater concerns regarding radiation due to the testing of atomic bombs. Do you know how many were detonated in the Midwest of the United States? I'd be far more concerned about anyone living in that area than exposure from aquarium rocks.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I think there are far greater concerns regarding radiation due to the testing of atomic bombs. Do you know how many were detonated in the Midwest of the United States? I'd be far more concerned about anyone living in that area than exposure from aquarium rocks.

Also add rural Arizona, Nevada & New Mexico.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Also add rural Arizona, Nevada & New Mexico.

I think that is far more significant of a concern. There actually have been studies performed and although I don't remember much from what was found, it was determined many people were exposed to radiation which was detected by testing their "baby teeth" after falling out if I'm not mistaken. If they're not experiencing serious side effects after that, I'd say rock from the Marshall Islands should not occupy your mind with concerns.

 

[lilzbra]

Also add rural Arizona, Nevada & New Mexico.

Yes I am aware of those test sites as well. We have done some horrible things to our planet in the name of military defense! The effects of which have most likely propagated across the world from wind and ocean currents alone for decades... The testing in the midwest also most likely contaminated our food supply through the corn and wheat industry.

However, this discussion is specific to the rock that has been, and is still used in many aquariums today. This is not based on a worry, but more out of curiosity.

 

[Eoka]

So I have been watching a few documentaries on the Marshall Islands, and how they were used for testing the H-Bomb prior to WWII. They detonated hundreds of nukes during the period of testing which scarred the landscape, and poisoned the island resources and people.

Many of us old school reefers prided ourselves in our collection of Marshall Islands live rock back in the 1980's and 1990's when it was imported in plenty to the states. As I reflect back to my reefing past running a reef tank full of around 150 lbs of this stuff for about 15 years of my early childhood and young adult life, I begin to wonder if I was actually exposed to any radiation. I sold all of the rock back in the late 1990's while I was moving (huge regret now!) so I have none to test. However, if anyone in the community has access to true Marshall Island live rock and a Geiger counter it would be interesting to hear the results.

I have access to a Geiger counter, but sadly no Marshall Island rock anymore...

Whats so cool about this rock? Was it because it was from the ocean? I'm young so I wouldn't really know the significance.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Whats so cool about this rock? Was it because it was from the ocean? I'm young so I wouldn't really know the significance.

The flora and fauna on ring of fire rock is unparalled. Fijian, Tongan, Marshall Islands rock is some of the best in the world between natural formation and 'live' things on the rock.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

The flora and fauna on ring of fire rock is unparalled. Fijian, Tongan, Marshall Islands rock is some of the best in the world between natural formation and 'live' things on the rock.

I can't speak about the unique formations since most of the Indonesian rock we get isnt all that big usually but it comes from an area know for being 10x more diverse than the Great Barrier Reef and is cover entirely with beautiful coralline...I can only imagine the bacterial diversity...it's incredible! Lived ocean rock is the real deal!

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Live ocean rock is my strange addiction...I absolutely love it! Coralline that grows in aquariums is pretty but natural live rock covered with coralline is absolutely beautiful! I can't help but biy a couple pieces from tile to tile because it so cheap! I'm by no means dissing the maricultured rock in the Gulf of Mexico but it just isn't close to the same in my personal opinion. Again, im NOT dissing maricultured live rock. It's very sustainable.

 

[taricha]

However, if anyone in the community has access to true Marshall Island live rock and a Geiger counter it would be interesting to hear the results.

I have access to a Geiger counter, but sadly no Marshall Island rock anymore...

ooh nice. Cool idea.

having played with my geiger counter and a few radioactive sources, I think it'd be really unlikely to have any concerning level of radiation, but maybe just enough to be interesting.

 

[lilzbra]

ooh nice. Cool idea.

having played with my geiger counter and a few radioactive sources, I think it'd be really unlikely to have any concerning level of radiation, but maybe just enough to be interesting.

Yes this discussion was not about concerning radiation, but just to see if anything is still registering on those rocks we may be keeping in our tanks! Also you both are correct the biodiversity of that rock was out of this world! The rock was always exploding with so much color, macro algae, micro-fauna, sponge, coral, and other critters! Our hobby is deffinitly missing out on what we used to get for rock back in the day! I still have quite a few pieces of Indo live rock from back in the 90's that I use as seed rock for all of my tanks. I refuse to purchase the 'fake painted rock' and always buy dry base rock and seed it with my Indo live rock to get a more natural look with "real" coraline and sponge encrusting all over it within a few months.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I think that is far more significant of a concern. There actually have been studies performed and although I don't remember much from what was found, it was determined many people were exposed to radiation which was detected by testing their "baby teeth" after falling out if I'm not mistaken. If they're not experiencing serious side effects after that, I'd say rock from the Marshall Islands should not occupy your mind with concerns.

The study looked at Strontium-90 in baby teeth. Local samples near me were found to have higher levels, apparently due to the effects of the Fermi power plant:

No: Baby teeth can show nuclear power is a health threat

No: Baby teeth can show nuclear power is a health threat

www.monroenews.com

Jay

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

The study looked at Strontium-90 in baby teeth. Local samples near me were found to have higher levels, apparently due to the effects of the Fermi power plant:

No: Baby teeth can show nuclear power is a health threat

No: Baby teeth can show nuclear power is a health threat

www.monroenews.com

Jay

Ok, I must've been mixed up between studies...like I said it was a really long time ago but regardless,if the majority of people in that area haven't suffered to any great extent (that we publicly are aware of) I really don't think live rock would be a concern. (OP said is more just curiosity though)

 

[dansyr]

AFAIK very little of the rock collection would have taken place near the bomb tests. Rongelap was close enough for radiation to cause issues (for human health). But Kwaj is relatively close, geiger counters might pick things up from there but it's been not enough to cause a health problem for people living there long-term. And most of the other atolls, including the "hub" Majuro, are hundreds of miles further away. Radiation is certainly still a major problem, please don't get me wrong.

But to give a context of scale, they have been removing debris from the contaminated ones and moving it around in shipping containers on its way to disposal. That stuff sets off a geiger counter (why it is removed) but that's material directly from contaminated locations still undergoing cleanup, but not strong enough that they can't just leave it in a shipping container parked outside the office. So I would be incredibly surprised if rocks from, say, Arno, had any more radiation than background.

that said, you probably already know this but the spread and lasting effects of bomb testing are quantitative globally, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium#Use_as_an_oceanic_transient_tracer

 

[Radman73]

So I have been watching a few documentaries on the Marshall Islands, and how they were used for testing the H-Bomb prior to WWII. They detonated hundreds of nukes during the period of testing which scarred the landscape, and poisoned the island resources and people.

Many of us old school reefers prided ourselves in our collection of Marshall Islands live rock back in the 1980's and 1990's when it was imported in plenty to the states. As I reflect back to my reefing past running a reef tank full of around 150 lbs of this stuff for about 15 years of my early childhood and young adult life, I begin to wonder if I was actually exposed to any radiation. I sold all of the rock back in the late 1990's while I was moving (huge regret now!) so I have none to test. However, if anyone in the community has access to true Marshall Island live rock and a Geiger counter it would be interesting to hear the results.

I have access to a Geiger counter, but sadly no Marshall Island rock anymore...

The water surrounding the rock likely negated any radiation that might have been present. Nothing to worry about IMO.

 

[Falreef]

Yes, there is exposure. The decay 1/2 life of atomic radiation is 100s of years.
It could certainly be causes of cancers and other blood disorders. Probably also affected any coral you put in the tank. Any unusual growths?

 

[Radman73]

Yes, there is exposure. The decay 1/2 life of atomic radiation is 100s of years.
It could certainly be causes of cancers and other blood disorders. Probably also affected any coral you put in the tank. Any unusual growths?

It would have to be a really hot source to cause any issues. I was a nuke mechanic on subs in the Navy, though granted that was 25 years ago now. Any rock directly exposed to blasts will be excavated and stored most likely at this point. The level of exposure to subsurface rock in neighboring areas is likely negligible.

Could be wrong as I haven't looked at any studies though.

 

[SaltwaterandLime]

I do know that coral skeleton in areas exposed to nuclear testing have been shown to have uptake of plutonium and uranium...... but that comes from the corals using the elements in the water to build their skeletons. That works different from radiation exposure effecting things already in place

Plutonium isotopes and radionuclides in corals around Weizhou land in Beibu Gulf, China

Plutonium isotopes in the coral were determined with chemical separation method using AG 1-X8 and AG-MP-1M anion exchange resins and sector field indu…

www.sciencedirect.com

Plutonium and americium behavior in coral atoll environments|INIS

inis.iaea.org

--- edited post to add a source

 

[lilzbra]

Great information being shared on this topic! I still would love to see some true Marshall Island Rocks next to a Geiger counter to satisfy my scientific curiosity. The Marshall Islands are rated as one of the most toxic places on earth because of all of the nukes that were detonated there. However, as some have stated in this thread, it is home to such a rich diversity of reef life. Makes you wonder just a bit...

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Great information being shared on this topic! I still would love to see some true Marshall Island Rocks next to a Geiger counter to satisfy my scientific curiosity. The Marshall Islands are rated as one of the most toxic places on earth because of all of the nukes that were detonated there. However, as some have stated in this thread, it is home to such a rich diversity of reef life. Makes you wonder just a bit...

"Toxic" has to be given a very specific definition if you're curious about that. What does the word mean in context? Toxicity generally refers to the LD50 value with a lower value representing high toxicity at a lower dose. It seems to be either used incorrectly or with a different meaning.