Mass Fish Loss

[Akadios]

So each night I have been losing fish. What started this was reducing the stock in my tank (I had 2 tanks I merged into one my wife made me close up them) The new tank has been up no problems for 3 months now however. I knew the stock was a little high and reduced it see thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/next-phase-of-my-75g-build.377423/#post-4612059

Immediately after removing the extra stock fish started dying.

Since that point Over 5 days have lost an orchid dottyback, a kole tang, a clown fish, and a starry blenny.

Current remaining stock is a Yellow Tang, a six line wrasse, and a clown. None of the deaths had signs of injury some carcasses were being munched on but the ones not had no injury.

Water parameters
Ph 8.3
Temp 78
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Calcium 440
Alk 10
Phosphate 0

Corals are doing fine, inverts are doing fine, slimmer working, chaeto alive, pod colony thriving.

No signs of illness before deaths however this morning the Yellow Tang has a single white spot on his tail.

Help.

 

[Big G]

Can we get a picture of the yellow tang?

 

[SandJ]

Did you disrupt the rock work or sand bed when removing the fish from the tank?
You may have release something in the sand bed or caused an ammonia spike.

 

[tangtime]

Mass fish loss is often attributed to velvet, due to a major stress event, such as the combining of tanks.

I combined a 150 and a 180 from another reefers that was getting out and lost 80% of my fish within a week or so.

 

[Akadios]

So couple things the spot on the tang is gone now that I am back from the store, maybe it was just a grain of sand stuck. I have attached pics of the remaining fish best I could capture and my corals, no one seems sick now but each night for 5 nights I lose one fish. They were all living together fine is it possible removing 1/3 the tank stock disrupted the balance and caused them to start fighting over new territory?

 

[Akadios]

more corals and other BTA every one is happy everyone eats just like before the death, but every night a fish dies.

 

[Mark Derail]

When I went through that, I found through Kijiji a 3 footer tank for a hospital QT tank.
Did a tear-down with a big Rubbermaid 40g tub from Walmart.

Separated all the live rocks, corals, inverts into the tub. All the fish into the QT tank.
Both sections with "freshly made" SW.

Then fully rinsed out the sump, equipment & DT with RO water. Then fully stocked with fresh SW, got the temp to normal, put the live rocks / corals / inverts back into the DT. Maintained the DT as usual.

The DT remained fallow for 3 months (no fish at all) and the QT tank I did 50% WCs every 2nd day (until I could get a good filter cycled - maybe 3 weeks). The QT was half full with 20g.
In the QT got a simple airstone + circulation pump + PVC plastic tubes for the fish to hide in.
I got a simple airstone filter going a week later.

Three months is a loooong time. I went through 4 boxes (makes 160g of SW) in those 3 months. Lost many inverts due to the WC shock - I replaced them. No need to QT the new inverts - the DT was basically a QT fish-less system.

I didn't know if I was battling velvet or ich or both. Three out of seven fish died in the first two days, before I even started Cupramine.
I waited two months, did a Cupramine run with 5 new fish (the new yellow tang did not survive Cupramine - look that up).

Also keep your DT and QT far apart from each other, as cross contamination car occur.

After going through all this - good news - you'll have a cycled QT system for any new fish. ** fish ** not inverts or corals, those need a different QT system (without any copper)

 

[Akadios]

Did you disrupt the rock work or sand bed when removing the fish from the tank?
You may have release something in the sand bed or caused an ammonia spike.

I did have to move rocks but the fish are dying 1 at a time over nights.

 

[Akadios]

Mass fish loss is often attributed to velvet, due to a major stress event, such as the combining of tanks.

I combined a 150 and a 180 from another reefers that was getting out and lost 80% of my fish within a week or so.

What should I do to fix this if it is it?

 

[Mark Derail]

Oh, I got rid of all sand. Just the rocks and living stuff. No cleaning chemicals.

RO water well rinsed in the sump & DT, will kill off ich or velvet. I did a few rinses, letting it sit overnight once. So all equipment was in RO water and "running".

Some will also suggest you use Coral Dip. What's important is the life-cycle of Velvel / Ich. Going fallow 3 full months, nothing left alive in the rocks / corals / inverts will hurt your fish anymore.

Keep the QT cycled and running for your next batch of replacement fish after putting the 3-month survivors back into the DT. A good QT is also 3 months, and only dose copper or Cupramine if you see signs of anything bad like white spots.
Some reefers *always* treat new fish to the full ramp-up dose of copper. However...
...
If you are patient - segregating new fish for 3 months - and getting the salinity just right and doing WCs frequently - you'll be fine. Doing RO dip, then ramping up with copper, then ramping down, just means you can add new fish that survive that quicker into your DT. Like after 4 or 5 weeks, instead of 12-13 weeks.

Adding any new fish - or corals or inverts - into your DT directly, you run the risk of re-infecting your DT.
Full QT of everything, every time.
...
I bought some coral dip, and treat new corals twice and have a 5g QT tank. I simply add water from the DT into the 5g. So corals are isolated about two days with two dips.
Then into the DT.
...
Inverts need to be 12 weeks also - and copper will kill them. I have a LFS that has two central filtration systems, that they allowed me to inspect. One for fish, one for corals / inverts. In two different rooms or sections.
So that one LFS I trust that I won't get Velvet or Ich from - for corals or inverts.

 

[Akadios]

I dont have a tank setup currently to run a 3 month setup. Is there an option for treating the whole tank?

 

[Mark Derail]

I dont have a tank setup currently to run a 3 month setup. Is there an option for treating the whole tank?

Nope. Fish only in a 2 footer or 3 footer tank, filled half-way up. Filtration is optional if you do a 50% WC every other day, you only have ammonia to worry about.
Trust me - setting up a QT tank - is the best thing you'll ever do.

I've had zero problems ever since I did my 3-month, and do a 3-month QT (with sponge/air filtration) for any new fish. If you have a sump, you can keep the sponge/air filter running 24/7 in the sump, so it is always cycled with bacteria.
A sandbed and at nice sized live-rock in a fish-only QT tank will also help harbor good bacteria.
* Never mix together any copper-based product with corals / inverts.

 

[Mark Derail]

I dont have a tank setup currently to run a 3 month setup. Is there an option for treating the whole tank?

Actually, there is. It's called going FOWLER in your DT. Fish Only With LivE Rocks. But you need new (clean) rocks, don't use the ones you have already. Or other live rocks that could possibly be in contact with ich/velvet.

My local Kijiji has a few "sellers" of live rocks, not too expensive and never were in contact with corals or inverts - essentially neutral. Usually 2$ per pound here.

You need to get rid of all the old stuff. Maybe sell it to someone that doesn't want fish. Or donate to a LFS.

Or do the opposite - sell or donate your fish - wait 3-4 months, when you can do a QT system, before getting fish.

Then you can just do corals, shrimp, snails and hermit crabs. A fish-less DT is still very nice.

 

[Akadios]

So if I pull the fish out and just let the tank run for 3 months it should clear with the corals and the inverts in it?

 

[HotRocks]

So if I pull the fish out and just let the tank run for 3 months it should clear with the corals and the inverts in it?

Correct. Removing the fish from DT is what causes the parasite die off. It is what breaks the life cycle of the parasite. All coral and inverts are good to stay In the DT during your 76day fallow period.

Then your fish will need to be treated separately in a QT tank.

For the QT tank, a lot of people use pvc pipe for structure, leaving the tank bare bottom, no sand or live rock. Problem with sand and live rock in QT, is when you medicate with copper as you probably would to kill velvet the live rock and sand absorb the meds and make it much harder to dose/monitor.

 

[Mark Derail]

So if I pull the fish out and just let the tank run for 3 months it should clear with the corals and the inverts in it?

Yes! Then if you get fish in 3 or more months from now, either QT them for 3 months or get them from another hobbyist or LFS that is trustworthy enough for you to do less than 3 month QT.

Example, some LFS have a fish for 1+ months before selling it, in fish-only section, and independent filtration (sometimes per wall). You can smell their water and see their filtration, that they are excellent. You could then do less than 3 month QT on those fish.
If you get fish from multiple sources, then play it safe with a full QT.
BTW - 3 months is easier to remember than 76 days.

 

[Akadios]

So I have The tang and Wrasse is a 10 gallon QT running Copper, Flagyl, Kanamycin, Nitrofurazone, Potassium Dichromate, and Praziquantel. The wrasse is near 100% the tang is struggling. I did a freshwater dip on him today and am unsure if he will make it the night.

I have a QT 20 Gallon setup in a separate room that I got 2 new Clowns and a new Orchid Dottyback while I run Fallow until July 1st.

Anyone have any advice on such things as, when I can add the wrasse ti the 20 gallon? How many water changes for the DT? should I drain it fully once and refill with new water to pull down the parasitic load? How to feed the tank, etc...

 

[Fishfinder]

Example, some LFS have a fish for 1+ months before selling it, in fish-only section, and independent filtration (sometimes per wall). You can smell their water and see their filtration, that they are excellent.

Smelling water and seeing filtration have nothing to do with protozoans being present or not

 

[HotRocks]

So I have The tang and Wrasse is a 10 gallon QT running Copper, Flagyl, Kanamycin, Nitrofurazone, Potassium Dichromate, and Praziquantel. The wrasse is near 100% the tang is struggling. I did a freshwater dip on him today and am unsure if he will make it the night.

I have a QT 20 Gallon setup in a separate room that I got 2 new Clowns and a new Orchid Dottyback while I run Fallow until July 1st.

Anyone have any advice on such things as, when I can add the wrasse ti the 20 gallon? How many water changes for the DT? should I drain it fully once and refill with new water to pull down the parasitic load? How to feed the tank, etc...

The reason your tang may be struggling, is the fact that all those meds mixed together suck the oxygen out of the water, may also cause a bacterial bloom.

I would keep the two QTs separate, until you are finished with all treatments. Then you can combine as a single holding tank while DT is fallow.

No need to do water changes due to parasites. The fish not being in the tank breaks the cycle, and parasites will die off. Follow your normal WC schedule, and maybe even less with the bioload removed.

 

[Mark Derail]

Smelling water and seeing filtration have nothing to do with protozoans being present or not

I agree. If the LFS does a good job, and you reduce your QT time accordingly, the risk would be smaller. However never zero. Personally, if the fish is healthy and from a LFS that has had him a few weeks, my QT might be shorter than 90 days.
I like going between 76 and 90 days.