Math gurus needed for correct dosing

[Sashaka]

As several of you know from my previous posts, I have a hard time reading the color chart on the API copper test kit. I’ve decided to look at the current treatment mathematically as well as using the API test kit until my Hanna high range copper checker comes in. It's on back order. My math is not my best strength, so can someone check my findings and let me know if I’m on target with my dosing?
Background: I have been ramping up CopperPower in a 29 gallon bare bottom sick tank with a copper sensitive fish…so going slowly. According to the directions on the bottle, I need to dose 1 fluid oz or about 6 teaspoons per 20 gallons for a 2.5ppm copper concentration. I’m shooting for about 2.0 ppm solution for this tank at the end of ramp up. I have been dosing in teaspoons using a medicinal cap that comes on the top of a cough medicine bottle, probably not the best thing to dose with, but it’s what I have right now.

Here’s what I’ve done so far…

Added 4 tsp = .67 oz or 1.165 ppm in 29 gal tank

One week later: Removed 10 gal water due to high nitrates. Replaced 10 gal with 4 more tsp CopperPower = 1.92ppm

Today, I’d like to do another 10 gal water change and add enough CopperPower to bring copper up to 2.0ppm in the 29 gal tank. Here’s what my math came up with…

Water change 10 gallons. Replace the 10 gallons adding 2.5 tsp
This should take me to 2.0 ppm in the 29 gal tank, I think.

Is this correct?

Thanks in advance!

 

[deedubz]

Math isn't exactly my strength either. If you have a little extra copper to play with, you could make up a 5g bucket and try to match the color as closely as possible to give you a baseline.

If you're shooting for 2.0 with instructions of 2.5, you could multiply the instructions x .8 ( 4/5 ) then test.

I don't know how helpful this is.. Free bump though?

 

[HotRocks]

As several of you know from my previous posts, I have a hard time reading the color chart on the API copper test kit. I’ve decided to look at the current treatment mathematically as well as using the API test kit until my Hanna high range copper checker comes in. It's on back order. My math is not my best strength, so can someone check my findings and let me know if I’m on target with my dosing?
Background: I have been ramping up CopperPower in a 29 gallon bare bottom sick tank with a copper sensitive fish…so going slowly. According to the directions on the bottle, I need to dose 1 fluid oz or about 6 teaspoons per 20 gallons for a 2.5ppm copper concentration. I’m shooting for about 2.0 ppm solution for this tank at the end of ramp up. I have been dosing in teaspoons using a medicinal cap that comes on the top of a cough medicine bottle, probably not the best thing to dose with, but it’s what I have right now.

Here’s what I’ve done so far…

Added 4 tsp = .67 oz or 1.165 ppm in 29 gal tank

One week later: Removed 10 gal water due to high nitrates. Replaced 10 gal with 4 more tsp CopperPower = 1.92ppm

Today, I’d like to do another 10 gal water change and add enough CopperPower to bring copper up to 2.0ppm in the 29 gal tank. Here’s what my math came up with…

Water change 10 gallons. Replace the 10 gallons adding 2.5 tsp
This should take me to 2.0 ppm in the 29 gal tank, I think.

Is this correct?

Thanks in advance!

I would run to pharmacy and get a syringe. Or somewhere close local for you. Dosing with tsp, is way risky as it's hard to be exact. Tons of room for error IMO. Follow this thread.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chelated-copper-is-chelated-copper.373513/

 

[Sashaka]

If you're shooting for 2.0 with instructions of 2.5, you could multiply the instructions x .8 ( 4/5 ) then test.

I'm not confident of my ability to color match, but your second suggestion is doable. My Hanna copper checker is on back order 3 to 4 weeks. Thanks!

I would run to pharmacy and get a syringe.

I will check my local pharmacy ASAP. I was under the impression I could not get one because of NYS laws. Thanks!

 

[Sarah24!]

Hmmm not being able to look at the chart and see it makes it hard. But (please don’t hate me) but I would stop doing it That way. In one of the prior posts they suggested to make it in a bucket prior. This I would suggest over, what your doing. With out getting math crazy on anyone, you have to factor in, dehydration, the chemical settling etc. The copper solution chemical will not say constant through out. So just because your remove 10 gallons of water doesn’t mean you removed that exact amount of copper. It could be more or less based on the soluble chemical solution.

I would definitely suggest using the Hannah copper checker, or take your water to your lfs and have them test it.

 

[Sashaka]

I would definitely suggest using the Hannah copper checker, or take your water to your lfs and have them test it.

Thanks for your response Sarah24. My Hannah copper checker is on back order 3 to 4 weeks. I didn't think about my LFS. I have to travel 1-1/2 hours to get there, but I'm headed that way on Thursday, so I'll take in a sample! Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Sashaka]

Free bump though?

I'm sorry. I'm not only a newbie to Reef2Reef, but also a newbie to the lingo used here. I know a "bump" somehow keeps a thread going, but I don't know how to do it. I also know there are rules to "bump," but I don't know them either. Blush.

 

[Sarah24!]

Lol sure so let’s see here it’s 1 fluid ounce per 20 gallons equals 6 teaspoons, which leaves 9 gallons left give or take. So low side that would be 2.5 teaspoons or roughly 0.41667 which will round to 0.42 fluid ounces which should be roughly 28.7 gallons. It would also mean that 1 fluid ounce per gallon would equal .0078125 or simply 0.0078(29) which equals actually 22 gallons based on the math. This is where I’m concerned on is because depending on the chemistry in the bottle 1 fluid oz can be est equal 20 gallons but the math says it’s actually 22 gallons if you do your standard conversion table. (FYI I’m really tired and doing this in my head at the moment).

Now since algebra is our friend here, we need to know the unknowns, do you have any live rock, if so how many pounds because we have to factor the half life in.

Second, if no live rock, do we know the actual water displacement in the tank? That will change our copper level either by making it higher or lower. Then we need to factor in how much water we lose do to air, heat etc. I also need to
Know if your adding salt water or Rodi? This can change the chemistry of the water which since copper power is five times the rate (since its concentrated it will expand based on water parameters. But I need more info before I can give you a estimate at best.

 

[Sashaka]

(FYI I’m really tired and doing this in my head at the moment)

Wow, Sarah. Doing any complicated math in my head is way beyond me! I need pencil and paper all the way.
The tank only has three PVC pipes and a heater. I do run a double HOB filter with just floss to keep the bacteria alive, which adds a slight bit of water volume, but as the tank is not filled to the rim, I figure the two equal out the volume back to 29 gal. Evaporation is about 1/2 gal every week. I usually just add a bit of freshwater daily to compensate. I figure the copper remains in the water like salt, so freshwater top off is all that's needed. I use tap/well water in my sick tanks.

the math says it’s actually 22 gallons

That's interesting and a bit scary that your math contradicts the Copper Power directions. Can you post your figures in the "Coppersafe Warning" thread? I think it would be valuable for them to take your figures into consideration while they continue their experiments.

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

I’m not sure how to do what you mentioned to be honest I am still new to this site. But please do not use tap water any more at all. Most wells or tap water systems have additional copper in the water do to soil, copper pipes etc, which means you will have trace elements of copper. However slight this number is, it will still skew our numbers for testing. According to the CDC, boiling tap water or well water will not get rid of copper but only intensify it. If you have not run water through your house, it recommends letting it run on cold for about 15 seconds or longer per water faucet. Now if you have a water system, like purifier that will stop the copper but we don’t want to add to it. We also need to find the fluid volume level in all three pipes as well as your filters. The tank will hold 29 gallons which is up to the top of the plastic lining usually. So we may actually be over 29 gallons which is either good or bad depending on the level of copper. Most states only allow a max of 15ppm of lead in tap water, it can also contain larger amounts of magnesium and calicium ions. And worse phosphates. And fluoride. Now for a human this water is tested way more than we can imagine so it’s safe for us to drink etc. However, this isn’t about you or I at the mmment. But lol no more tap water for your sick tank. Use some rodi so it saves us the headache of adding in more variables. Also most of my info is from the actual CDC website for drinking water.

Sorry, went off topic a tad bit. Anyway have you tried to test the water your pulling out, meaning the copper level? If the strips show a constant color etc or number then it’s safe to say it’s being consistent with the water volume. I don’t want to give you the wrong number but it’s hard not knowing all the variables in place to do the math. Sorry I’m trying for you.

 

[Sashaka]

Thank you, Sarah. I appreciate you taking the time to try to figure this out! I did not realize my question was going to be so complicated! Please don't beat yourself up trying to figure this out to the decimal. I was just looking for a ballpark figure to see if when initially dosing a tank, my math would take me close to target range. The copper test kit will get me to the copper level needed and help me stay there.

We know from Hotrocks' thread "COPPERSAFE WARNING" that bottle directions can be misleading, so doing a bit of math before dosing seems logical to me as does testing twice a day during treatment.

Thanks again for your help.

BTW, it's a bare bottom sick tank; it's not a display tank, so no hoses or sump hooked up, just a few PVC pipes for fish to hide in, a HOB filter for surface agitation, some plain filter floss to remove solid organics, and a heater. Bare basics to treat sick fish.