Maximizing flow while minimizing sound

[DC504]

Reef Gurus,

I need some tips on fine tuning my new build. I'm currently in the leak test phase (24 hours in) and now I'm trying to optimize the flow rate. My main return is a COR20 with a COR15 as backup / manifold / sump circulation. Return pipe is 1.25 " that tees off into dual .75" pipes into the DT. I'm running a bean animal drain with 1" pipes (i wish i had gone larger but the tank was pre-drilled for 1"). So with things as they are, I can only run my return pump at ~ 38% before the partial siphon drain becomes too noisy for me and this is with my full siphon drain wide open. I have a flow sensor on the full siphon and it remains consistently the same(~540 GPH) on any setting above 35%. I know there only so much that can be done to battle physics, but I was hoping you guys could provide some insight on tweaking things.

All that said, I'm pretty satisfied with my flow rate but would like the ability to ramp it up if it was ever called for...

Oh and tank is 120G.

Thanks,

 

[DLHDesign]

A 1" pipe with no bends should be able to handle well above 540gph, but even with a few turns to get down into a sump, it should be able to handle about double that.
My first guess is that the water level in your drain area is too close to the top of your primary drain, creating a premature syphon. Is there a pipe coming up from the primary drain bulkhead? If so, how close to the surface of the water is it?

 

[DC504]

Thank you for the reply! The primary siphon has a standpipe which is about 8 inches below the top of the overflow. Granted, I do have 3 90's and close to 3 feet of horizontal run before it enters the sump. When I get home, I will mess around with the drain height to see if it improves things. Worse case scenario and if you think it would help, I can re-plumb the primary drain using 45's and eliminate most of the horizontal pipe runs. I was trying to keep my plumbing aesthetically pleasing and keep the air space above sump open, but I'd rather have things function properly than look nice.

 

[PaulPerger]

Thank you for the reply! The primary siphon has a standpipe which is about 8 inches below the top of the overflow. Granted, I do have 3 90's and close to 3 feet of horizontal run before it enters the sump. When I get home, I will mess around with the drain height to see if it improves things. Worse case scenario and if you think it would help, I can re-plumb the primary drain using 45's and eliminate most of the horizontal pipe runs. I was trying to keep my plumbing aesthetically pleasing and keep the air space above sump open, but I'd rather have things function properly than look nice.

My guess is that 3 feet of horizontal run is causing you to lose a LOT of flow. As has been stated, a 1" pipe should be able to handle much more than 540 GPH. Horizontal flow, however, is the enemy of gravity fed drainage. Even a few inches of drop would help tremendously.

 

[DLHDesign]

Horizontal flow, however, is the enemy of gravity fed drainage. Even a few inches of drop would help tremendously.

Agreed. There should be at least some drop in the line along every bit of the return - the more, the better. I don't think that swapping out 90's for 45's will make too much of a difference (unless they give you said downslope).

It's annoying to have to change plumbing, and can be frustrating to loose the aesthetic looks you want. If you are happy with the flow, then you could keep it as-is if you want. But if you are getting flow reduction, then it's also possible that you would get detritus build-up, which could lead to a clog - which would be bad...

 

[DC504]

Agreed. There should be at least some drop in the line along every bit of the return - the more, the better. I don't think that swapping out 90's for 45's will make too much of a difference (unless they give you said downslope).

It's annoying to have to change plumbing, and can be frustrating to loose the aesthetic looks you want. If you are happy with the flow, then you could keep it as-is if you want. But if you are getting flow reduction, then it's also possible that you would get detritus build-up, which could lead to a clog - which would be bad...

Points well taken and thanks to both of you. The 45's will give me the down slope where none would be otherwise possible. Even if I never use the additional flow, the fact that it's not there will eat at me. I'm sure this won't be the last iteration of this setup (one can only hope) as have changed my mind on many, many things thus far. If there comes a time when I want to crank it up, I definitely want the ability to do so. Better to find and fix these things now as opposed to when the tank is well established.

Thanks again guys...

 

[PaulPerger]

Better to find and fix these things now as opposed to when the tank is well established.

Well said... Good luck!

 

[DC504]

Update -

Just wanted to let you guys know that you totally nailed it. I re-plumbed the main siphon line yesterday when I got home. I fired it it up first thing this morning and the difference is HUGE! I wasn't able to totally eliminate all of the horizontal pipe, but I went from ~ 3' down to 8". I can now run the return @ 100% (not that I would, but I can if I wanted too ). Currently running @ 60% and it's dead silent. Super pleased!

Unfortunately, I had to leave my flow sensor out of the loop so I can't give you the actual difference in flow. I'll have to order some new unions from Neptune at some point and figure out where I want to put it, but not super concerned with this atm.

Thanks again!

 

[Nhltc99]

Once you get the flow sensor plumbed back in let us know what it increased to, I would be interested to hear. Also, can you post a picture of the new return design? I'm interested to visualize the change as I'm in the design stages of plumbing together my 75 and 200 gallon tanks to one sump, where there will be a lot of horizontal travel.

 

[jda]

Drains will quiet down once they get some organics and slime inside of them, but this is no help to you now.

Your return rate seems OK to me, so just add some flow pumps. The better ones are very quiet - I have no complaints with my Tunze stuff, which you can hear only if you actually listen.

 

[DC504]

Once you get the flow sensor plumbed back in let us know what it increased to, I would be interested to hear. Also, can you post a picture of the new return design? I'm interested to visualize the change as I'm in the design stages of plumbing together my 75 and 200 gallon tanks to one sump, where there will be a lot of horizontal travel

Before:


After:


As soon as I get the new unions for the flow sensor, I'll post the new flow.