Medications to keep on hand

[Hilltopreef90]

on your recommendations for medications to have on hand about what size is recommended
For example the two most used when quarantining fish
How much copper is a good amount?
I have a 20 gallon quarantine tank and know that I’ll be quarantining 3-4 new fish over the next several months.
I also have 8 fish that I may need to pull out and quarantine.

 

[ariellemermaid]

I would say number one is Prime for dealing with ammonia in poorly cycled or non-cycled QT tanks. After that I would say medications: copper (for ich or velvet outbreaks), and prazipro (for flukes) or General Cure. Then maybe a broad spectrum antibiotic like Kannaplex. Also, a Hanna copper checker and reagents when using copper (most accurate method by far).

Of course if you’re going to keep corals, all should be dipped so that’s something else I’d throw on the list. Something like CoralRX or your favorite dip of choice.

To be clear I’m not suggesting you might not need anything else ever. Only giving my 2 cents on the question of the bare essentials to keep on hand. You can get a lot of stuff locally or on Amazon very quickly if you need a specific antibiotic for instance. In terms of quantity, at least one full course, that’ll give you time to get more if needed. What you don’t want though is so much that it expires (antibiotics). A lot of these things come in standard sizes, so you’ll get plenty of use out of them (most antibiotics, copper, etc.). A 16oz bottle of copper power for instance treats like 300 gallons. So just look at the dosing, your tank size, and buy accordingly.

 

[Miami Reef]

Ouch. No Prime please!

Ensure your tank is cycled with bottled bacteria before you use copper.

 

[ariellemermaid]

Ouch. No Prime please!

Ensure your tank is cycled with bottled bacteria before you use copper.

When I first started QT I did that with Turbostart believing in the “insta cycle” hype and lots of media in the HOB filter. 2 small clowns and a Dottyback in a 20g promptly died, and I didn’t make the ammonia connection until it was too late because the Seachem ammonia badge didn’t change color either. But sure enough, lots of ammonia after 3-4 days.

Not sure what your beef with Prime is but I’ve found it invaluable over time. It’s even safe with Copper Power, but because copper interferes with ammonia testing I make sure the tank is cycled for the livestock load before I start adding copper. I’ve used Prime on a coral/invert tank as well without ill effects, and fish alone certainly don’t mind it. P.S. I once tried the months-cycled sponge “insta cycle” as well. Still had an ammonia spike.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

When I first started QT I did that with Turbostart believing in the “insta cycle” hype and lots of media in the HOB filter. 2 small clowns and a Dottyback in a 20g promptly died, and I didn’t make the ammonia connection until it was too late because the Seachem ammonia badge didn’t change color either. But sure enough, lots of ammonia after 3-4 days.

Not sure what your beef with Prime is but I’ve found it invaluable over time. It’s even safe with Copper Power, but because copper interferes with ammonia testing I make sure the tank is cycled for the livestock load before I start adding copper. I’ve used Prime on a coral/invert tank as well without ill effects, and fish alone certainly don’t mind it. P.S. I once tried the months-cycled sponge “insta cycle” as well. Still had an ammonia spike.

One issue with Prime (and other ammonia removers) is that they react with Cupramine to form toxic amounts of free copper. The jury is still out if Prime (and the others) cause this same issue with Coppersafe of Copper Power. To be safe, I don't use reducing agents when treating with amine-bound copper products.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

on your recommendations for medications to have on hand about what size is recommended
For example the two most used when quarantining fish
How much copper is a good amount?
I have a 20 gallon quarantine tank and know that I’ll be quarantining 3-4 new fish over the next several months.
I also have 8 fish that I may need to pull out and quarantine.

Coppersafe and Prazipro. A 16 ounce bottle of each should be more than enough for a few quarantine cycles in a 20 gallon tank.

Jay

 

[threebuoys]

A lot of different opinions in the community about the use of Prime. You should do some research and decide for yourself. Jay's point about the interaction with copper is spot on. Other issues.....?

Possible Mechanism for Seachem Prime Detoxification of Ammonia

We are having a long discussion in a different thread about if and how Seachem Prime might detoxify ammonia. I have never understood how the claimed ingredients in Prime (not clearly stated by Seachem, but probably close enough) would actually detoxify ammonia. I said that explicitly in an old...

www.reef2reef.com

That's just one thread.

 

[Hilltopreef90]

When I first started QT I did that with Turbostart believing in the “insta cycle” hype and lots of media in the HOB filter. 2 small clowns and a Dottyback in a 20g promptly died, and I didn’t make the ammonia connection until it was too late because the Seachem ammonia badge didn’t change color either. But sure enough, lots of ammonia after 3-4 days.

Not sure what your beef with Prime is but I’ve found it invaluable over time. It’s even safe with Copper Power, but because copper interferes with ammonia testing I make sure the tank is cycled for the livestock load before I start adding copper. I’ve used Prime on a coral/invert tank as well without ill effects, and fish alone certainly don’t mind it. P.S. I once tried the months-cycled sponge “insta cycle” as well. Still had an ammonia spike.

Is cupramine by seachem as good as coppersafe to use ?

 

[Hilltopreef90]

Coppersafe and Prazipro. A 16 ounce bottle of each should be more than enough for a few quarantine cycles in a 20 gallon tank.

Jay

Why is a copper Hanna checker so important and is it only used for monitoring copper in a quarantine tank ?

 

[ariellemermaid]

A lot of different opinions in the community about the use of Prime. You should do some research and decide for yourself. Jay's point about the interaction with copper is spot on. Other issues.....?

Possible Mechanism for Seachem Prime Detoxification of Ammonia

We are having a long discussion in a different thread about if and how Seachem Prime might detoxify ammonia. I have never understood how the claimed ingredients in Prime (not clearly stated by Seachem, but probably close enough) would actually detoxify ammonia. I said that explicitly in an old...

www.reef2reef.com

That's just one thread.

Oh I have and I’m still comfortable with it. I’ve even read that thread. I do believe it’s safe with Copper Power specifically, however, I need to note that I don’t advocate for using it with copper. I advocate having it on hand in a situation where you need to set up a QT quickly, just in case, for the cycling prior to copper.

Is cupramine by seachem as good as coppersafe to use ?

Coppersafe and Power Copper have a chelated form of copper that has a wider safe therapeutic range. Lots of people use cupramine but those are felt by many to be safer.

Why is a copper Hanna checker so important and is it only used for monitoring copper in a quarantine tank ?

Color changing cards are very difficult to read accurately and copper treatment is all about accuracy in ensuring proper dosing and that your level doesn’t dip below your target. It’s even more important with something like cupramine. Below target and you risk not killing ich, and too far above you start to risk toxicity. It’s not that it can’t be done without it, but if I could only have one Hanna checker it would be the copper one.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Why is a copper Hanna checker so important and is it only used for monitoring copper in a quarantine tank ?

Hobby grade copper test kits are really inaccurate - the API test kit can hardly even be used. Copper needs to be dosed very carefully - not enough, and the disease isn't managed, too much and it harms the fish. The Hanna checker allows for accurate testing.

Here is the thing: you hear a lot of people have problems with copper, I've dosed tens of thousands of fish with copper and have had no issues. What can be the differences? One is that I use a spectrophotometer to measure the copper levels and I never use ammonia removers in combination with copper. There could be other variables, but those are the only two I've identified.

jay

 

[2KMILLER]

When I first started QT I did that with Turbostart believing in the “insta cycle” hype and lots of media in the HOB filter. 2 small clowns and a Dottyback in a 20g promptly died, and I didn’t make the ammonia connection until it was too late because the Seachem ammonia badge didn’t change color either. But sure enough, lots of ammonia after 3-4 days.

Not sure what your beef with Prime is but I’ve found it invaluable over time. It’s even safe with Copper Power, but because copper interferes with ammonia testing I make sure the tank is cycled for the livestock load before I start adding copper. I’ve used Prime on a coral/invert tank as well without ill effects, and fish alone certainly don’t mind it. P.S. I once tried the months-cycled sponge “insta cycle” as well. Still had an ammonia spike.

None of that quick cycle stuff works!!! I was able to do my own mega quick cycle by taking half the fuge contents of my 85 gallon to the new tank. I prepped my rocks early in there and had tons of copepods. Ammonia was gone in less than two weeks and it was fully cycled. I think I used Prime and got the fish in even before then. It felt like everyone on Reef2Reef was saying that my method doesn’t work. “There’s nothing better than starting with perfectly balanced fresh RODI water and bacteria in bottle.” My method does work! My half dozen attempts to shorten cycling time with bottled cycling shortcuts were miserable failures and a waste of time. I kept having to start over! It’d take months.