Melanurus Wrasse died next day in QT

[brandon429]

By the way, new things are discovered in reefing all the time perhaps your nitrite data may be found to be an issue in disease etiology one day. If you feel that could be a valid disease pathway then don’t stop testing it and if it’s found to be the case on a large scale one day then I won’t forget you stood by claims earlier than the trending allowed. Test and make pattern logs of impacts you feel are valid.

 

[DrZoidburg]

@QuinnLee512 in my opinion this was an ammonia/ammonium issue. Aside from stress and maybe acclimation. Fish excrete ammonium compounds 24/7 and some fish are more sensitive than others.

 

[brandon429]

@Lowell Lemon

Copper treatment not working

I noticed ich on my swallowtail angel around 2 weeks back and spread to my flame angel. I started copper treatment since (fish only tank. Moved all inverts). Ich still persists and flame angel is hiding in a corner and not eating. Looks like its going to die. Shouldn’t the copper make it...

www.reef2reef.com

Im specifically asking you to work that post live time. Step in, take control and fix it up in the display


this work unfolding above is what happens by the second in the disease forum, so you take this one above, we are watching. You keep a large tank, thats a large tank, you’re qualified to assist.

 

[Tamberav]

Melanurus wrasse is not particularly that sensitive or difficult as far as wrasse goes. They are actually good beginner fish as long as they are not damaged in shipping or transporting.

 

[brandon429]

Tamberav I'm curious of this: why do you think nano-reef.com seems to have such lower incidence of fish disease compared to reef2reef

do you think there is something inherent in 2 clownfish/some gobies that makes the average nano reef different per lot of 1000 than these mixed fish full sized reefs on rtr

nr.com isn't practicing qt and fallow by and large, or if they are they're mighty silent about it. Their clowns and gobies fare well it seems, nearly always as a pattern for decades.

then again lots of old nanos used to use real live rock too, perhaps that helped

 

[alton]

Seven pages and no one mentioned sometimes fish die in transit no matter the circumstances. I had a purple tang once for two years, great fish until he starting picking on a fish that I wanted more than him. I put the net into the tank and he swam right into it. I placed him in a 6 gallon bucket with 4 gallons of display water and a air stone with battery pump and twenty minutes later we were in the LFS. To my surprise when I took the lid off he was dead as a door nail. Which is why most lfs have a out of site warranty, you leave the store no warranty. Next wrasse make sure its eating and place a container with sand in the QT with water from your display, call it a water change for your display.

 

[brandon429]

I agree. we never allow for genetic maladies/natural causes very often

 

[DrZoidburg]

Agreed sometimes @alton never had a fish from lfs die that quick though its only a little while away. The only other times in keeping 1000's of fish over the years where something that could cause such a quick death. Was ammonia especially since it is a bare brand new with no bacteria tank, toxins, and heart attacks believe it or not.

 

[brandon429]

Dr. Z I think its prudent to verify a system handles ammonia before using bioload in the system...no harm in verifying basic ammonia control before proceeding agreed.

 

[DrZoidburg]

Sure thing lol.

 

[Tamberav]

Tamberav I'm curious of this: why do you think nano-reef.com seems to have such lower incidence of fish disease compared to reef2reef

do you think there is something inherent in 2 clownfish/some gobies that makes the average nano reef different per lot of 1000 than these mixed fish full sized reefs on rtr

nr.com isn't practicing qt and fallow by and large, or if they are they're mighty silent about it. Their clowns and gobies fare well it seems, nearly always as a pattern for decades.

then again lots of old nanos used to use real live rock too, perhaps that helped

Hmm..

Could be lots of things really.

Small amount of fish, less room to bring in things. Clownfish and Gobies are fairly resistant and hardy (except for brook ofc). You won't see many Tangs or Anthias.

It's a small forum which leads to less conflicting advise. When someone asks for help with a fish on nano-reef you usually get answers direct to the point and the thread is over. There just isn't tons of people there. This means more information overall but on R2R but more wading through 7 pages like this thread has trying to make heads or tails. This may have no impact at all on care, just a difference I noticed.

Diversity of hitchhikers may be embraced over-all a little more. The older members who help others embrace these things so that gets passed on a bit more. They do have people with dedicated aptasia tanks It certainly is way cheaper to stock a 20g with live rock then a 200g!!!

Smaller tanks or smaller budgets sometimes lead to slower stocking which gives the tank time to mature.

Some people do practice observational QT on that forum but overall, most probably don't QT. Prophylactic treatment is not popular.

Maybe the larger percent water changes and popularity of vacuuming sand and turkey basting the rock helps?

Fish stocking density seems less there even for same size tanks.

I am just guessing.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Yes agreed I did, and thats why. It was a preemptive chops busting, you can thank Lowell

I am busting your "chops" because you literally have not earned any. You have not been paying attention. I created systems for many aquarium stores that act as both holding and QT if you like with the use of U.V. Ozone, Skimming, mechanical and biological filtration. The most successful wholesalers at the time used the same systems. Many continue to use the same systems world wide. Many had separate hospital tanks as well.

I am against the use of prophylactic treatments without diagnosis for the majority of reef keepers. Why you ask? Because many such as yourself have no practical experience receiving, acclimating, diagnosing or treating the various diseases using the various modalities used by the professionals such as Jay. It is just as bad to dump and pray over medications and chemical additives as it might be to dump and pray over fish introduction to the display aquarium. With out observation at the point of purchase how can one assertain the health of the fish? If one does not recognize a healthy fish how can one tell if it might be diseased? So I am also against Internet purchases of fish sight unseen by the purchaser unless they are professionals ordering from a trusted wholesale source.

What I just mentioned adds a whole list of variables the average or new aquarist must understand and overcome before they can have successful introduction to the display aquarium. This is infinitely harder due to the advent of online livestock sales in a world that thinks their aquarium should act just like McDonald's with drive through service and instant gratification.

Chops indeed. I made a good living in the aquarium industry for more than 25 years helping others succeed in their businesses. I am not some keyboard warrior that thinks links prove anything to anyone who has actual life experiences. I will no longer comment on your posts. You have won the coveted ignore button. Peace out sir.

 

[brandon429]

You waited a long time to provide a helpful response I thought that was well stated above. Asking you to participate in that thread where the need was live time was meant to show the rate and demand for treatments and prevention that must be outside the display in order to work. Agreed the ignore button on rtr is rare and best for circumstances where folks just cannot agree on procedure.

in case you were wondering his fish aren’t making it in the display.

 

[Miami Reef]

I purchased a melanurus wrasse and leopard wrasse at the same time 5 days ago. Yesterday the melanurus wrasse died.

I allowed the fish to acclimate for 4 days before bumping copper. The day I raised my copper to 1.9ppm was the same day the melanurus wrasse died. It was eating well.

I saw the leopard wrasse scratching, so I treated with prazipro to remove the flukes. The leopard wrasse stopped scratching ever since.

Do I know exactly why my melanurus wrasse died? No.

I didn’t have ammonia. Fish was acclimated. Could it be the copper? Maybe. Flukes? Likely.

Sometimes fish WILL die in QT. It’s just the price we pay to have overall healthy fish.

 

[Cjeippert]

I purchased a melanurus wrasse and leopard wrasse at the same time 5 days ago. Yesterday the melanurus wrasse died.

I allowed the fish to acclimate for 4 days before bumping copper. The day I raised my copper to 1.9ppm was the same day the melanurus wrasse died. It was eating well.

I saw the leopard wrasse scratching, so I treated with prazipro to remove the flukes. The leopard wrasse stopped scratching ever since.

Do I know exactly why my melanurus wrasse died? No.

I didn’t have ammonia. Fish was acclimated. Could it be the copper? Maybe. Flukes? Likely.

Sometimes fish WILL die in QT. It’s just the price we pay to have overall healthy fish.

This is why I never buy fish over $150. Would love to have some of the more exotic fish like achilles tang, gem wrasse, blotched anthias but sometimes they don’t make it. Especially the juveniles. Always a risk even if you do everything textbook correct.