Mentoring new reef keepers?

[crusso1993]

A mentorship program is an outstanding idea! One which could serve many, many reefers very well.

I've been involved in mentorship programs in another hobby and in the professional world too. Much goes into the preparation and development of such programs, as it should, as the level of responsibility is of the utmost concern.

The motives for becoming a mentor would need to be examined as would the vetting process. Not to mention, of course, complete honesty and transparency. Perhaps one aspect of the vetting process could be an assessment, of sorts, to be taken and passed. I could keep going but will simply stop this train of thought here.

There are many ideas and thoughts surrounding the possible mentorship program but I will hold off until a determination is made about moving forward in some way.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Am I misunderstanding something #reefsquad? I understand and notice different members chiming on different subjects in which they excel and it is awesome and a well-oiled machine so to speak. I value all areas of admin/staff etcetera here yet value many whom I know to have tons of knowledge and experience as well.

Am I inferring incorrectly that if someone with several years of experience on a matter and perhaps educated in it as well should not give unfettered attention to a specific topic and remain silent?

No way Captain. Not at all. The reef squad is just here to try and help more.

 

[DLHDesign]

Am I inferring incorrectly that if someone with several years of experience on a matter and perhaps educated in it as well should not give unfettered attention to a specific topic and remain silent?

Absolutely not!

The Reef Squad stands ready to offer advice, true. But that's not "instead of", but "in addition to". I can guarantee that every member of the Reef Squad is happy when a member - any member - steps up to provide aid to other members.

[edit] - Wait; is there a double-negative going on here...? :-? My answer is trying to say, "please answer anything/everything you can and are willing to".

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

No that's not the point. I am sorry you misunderstood my intent.

It's about keeping confusion to a minimum.

The community at large can only benefit from it.

I am in no way wanting to exclude folks from anything, yet, what I do want to do is to develop a report and be able to cut through the noise to get to the root of the issues folks may have and then get solid answers to them.

I am the first person to say "I am not sure, but I will find the person who is" That's what a mentor does. Impart knowledge and gather information from resources they have gathered.

I, personally, believe R2R as a whole does this through Articles as they condense information into one place. However, I do wish more people would learn to search before they post the 1000th iteration of "which salt should I use?" an act which leads to a lot of redundant threads. (Please don't take this and start a tangent)

Maybe a good solution would be better use of the ReefSquad hashtag and a summarized sticky by topic in the related forum? For example, in the water chemistry could be a sticky that first provides the ranges, then basic "recipes" more catered to tank styles. In the lighting forum there would be one about how corals and zooxanthellae react to different light spectrum intensities to help us target those as much as possible, so on and so forth. Thus providing a default location for everyone to reference.

While a mentor program within R2R does sound intriguing, what would the qualifications be to be a mentor? It sounds like the requirements would be very similar to ReefSquad which would be like setting up a Department of Redundancy Department....

 

[Lovemyreef2015]

I don't think private mentoring is a good idea. It will take away from the community. It would be like making it ok to PM people to answer questions. I believe we are better as a whole.

 

[DLHDesign]

Here's some downsides of individual mentors, for me;

1) What happens when they aren't available?

One of the main advantages of the forums at large is that they are open and offering advice 24x7, 365 days a year. There are certainly slower times when things take longer to get answered, but there are active members around the globe - available at every hour. If there was a private mentorship program set up, those mentors would only be available during certain hours. Work, family, sleep, vacations - all of these things makes an individual less available than a group. When you set up a person as The Source For Answers, then the reefer needing help may have difficulty adapting to other sources of advice. This could mean that during a critical point when the reefer needs urgent help - they are left without. This could leave a bad impression on not only the mentor, but also R2R at large.
Sure; you could have a team of mentors that could act as backup to each other. But then - how is that different than the forums at-large?

2) People learn a lot by teaching others.

One of the main ways that I learned "how to reef" (such as it is) has been through trying to help other people find answers to their questions. If you look at my early posts and filter out all the questions I myself asked, you'll likely see a lot of posts that sound like, "I think so-and-so (tagged) said to do this in that situation..." or, "I've seen a bunch of other people do that, so you might want to try it too?". I was careful to always couch my early answers with a degree of self-doubt. But as time went on, others on the site both corrected - and eventually validated - my suggestions. I had learned things through this process.
But if, instead, those questions had never been made public, I would not have had the chance to chime in on them. Yes; a lot of them had been asked before and the answers could have likely been found with a search. But it wasn't about them being asked for the 100th time - it was about me answering them for the 1st time. The gain wasn't so much for the person asking, in other words, but it was for me - the person answering. These days, there's a whole library of reefing information in my head available to tap into. Not because I had to know the info for myself per-se, but because I have had enough opportunities to answer the questions of others.

3) Mentors are individual people too.

Individual people make mistakes. Individual people get it wrong. Not because they are bad people or poor at their effort, but simply because they are people. Even professionals make mistakes - and that's OKAY. They should be allowed that opportunity. Especially for something that they are volunteering their time and energy for. Yet when that person is given responsibility for someone else's property, then they may not feel as free to make those mistakes. Their levels of stress will increase beyond that which they would normally feel. This stress may impact their enjoyment of the hobby at large in a negative way. I would - personally - hate to think that an R2R user of any type would be negatively impacted by something this site offered. That's antithesis to the goals of R2R.

 

[Captain Quint]

Absolutely not!

The Reef Squad stands ready to offer advice, true. But that's not "instead of", but "in addition to". I can guarantee that every member of the Reef Squad is happy when a member - any member - steps up to provide aid to other members.

[edit] - Wait; is there a double-negative going on here...? :-? My answer is trying to say, "please answer anything/everything you can and are willing to".

Ahh, thanks for the clarification, good sir.

 

[Captain Quint]

No way Captain. Not at all. The reef squad is just here to try and help more.

Thank you, good sir. I was a bit confused which is sometimes normal for me. lol

 

[Captain Quint]

Here's some downsides of individual mentors, for me;

1) What happens when they aren't available?

One of the main advantages of the forums at large is that they are open and offering advice 24x7, 365 days a year. There are certainly slower times when things take longer to get answered, but there are active members around the globe - available at every hour. If there was a private mentorship program set up, those mentors would only be available during certain hours. Work, family, sleep, vacations - all of these things makes an individual less available than a group. When you set up a person as The Source For Answers, then the reefer needing help may have difficulty adapting to other sources of advice. This could mean that during a critical point when the reefer needs urgent help - they are left without. This could leave a bad impression on not only the mentor, but also R2R at large.
Sure; you could have a team of mentors that could act as backup to each other. But then - how is that different than the forums at-large?

2) People learn a lot by teaching others.

One of the main ways that I learned "how to reef" (such as it is) has been through trying to help other people find answers to their questions. If you look at my early posts and filter out all the questions I myself asked, you'll likely see a lot of posts that sound like, "I think so-and-so (tagged) said to do this in that situation..." or, "I've seen a bunch of other people do that, so you might want to try it too?". I was careful to always couch my early answers with a degree of self-doubt. But as time went on, others on the site both corrected - and eventually validated - my suggestions. I had learned things through this process.
But if, instead, those questions had never been made public, I would not have had the chance to chime in on them. Yes; a lot of them had been asked before and the answers could have likely been found with a search. But it wasn't about them being asked for the 100th time - it was about me answering them for the 1st time. The gain wasn't so much for the person asking, in other words, but it was for me - the person answering. These days, there's a whole library of reefing information in my head available to tap into. Not because I had to know the info for myself per-se, but because I have had enough opportunities to answer the questions of others.

3) Mentors are individual people too.

Individual people make mistakes. Individual people get it wrong. Not because they are bad people or poor at their effort, but simply because they are people. Even professionals make mistakes - and that's OKAY. They should be allowed that opportunity. Especially for something that they are volunteering their time and energy for. Yet when that person is given responsibility for someone else's property, then they may not feel as free to make those mistakes. Their levels of stress will increase beyond that which they would normally feel. This stress may impact their enjoyment of the hobby at large in a negative way. I would - personally - hate to think that an R2R user of any type would be negatively impacted by something this site offered. That's antithesis to the goals of R2R.

Well worded.

 

[dantimdad]

Guys, I never said this should only be private mentoring. I said I had been doing it. I was wanting to bring the need to light.

I just saw a need, that now I am told is already been filled.


It seems that some of the reef squad have taken offense at my suggestion of a program like this and this was NEVER my intent.

Like I said, I had no clue what the purpose of reef squad really was until this thread.

 

[DLHDesign]

It seems that some of the reef squad have taken offense at my suggestion of a program like this and this was NEVER my intent.

Nope - no offense taken! We (Reef Squad and I feel I can say Mods) appreciate every effort by anyone/everyone to make R2R a more welcoming, accepting, and helpful place. Each of us are always open to new ways to make R2R better at these goals. Thank you not only for your personal efforts, but for the effort you have shown to improve the site. Please keep up the good work!

Like I said, I had no clue what the purpose of reef squad really was until this thread.

This is something that we (the RS/Mods) talk about. We want the membership (new and old) to know that the Squad stands ready to help at all times and on any subject, but we also don't want to give off the impression that we are in any way The Only Answer. We prefer to give the entire community the chance to answer questions and share info rather than be the ones to always dole it out, but we also want to make sure that questions are answered and not ignored for any undue length of time.
It's a fine line we try to walk. I'm not surprised that there are members who have no idea what the Reef Squad does nor how it differs from the mods. I think that's okay, too - I'd like to think that it's a result of us not being needed, because there are so many awesome members that we don't stand out as special. That's better than the alternative that we aren't good at what we try to do, at least. ;-)

 

[Captain Quint]

Guys, I never said this should only be private mentoring. I said I had been doing it. I was wanting to bring the need to light.

I just saw a need, that now I am told is already been filled.


It seems that some of the reef squad have taken offense at my suggestion of a program like this and this was NEVER my intent.

Like I said, I had no clue what the purpose of reef squad really was until this thread.

You're a good person with good intentions for the good of all and I cannot nor will not even attempt to speak for anyone, but I didn't see your original post as anything but trying to be helpful with no ill intent.

 

[Flippers4pups]

My input on this is that there are many, seasoned reefers with a huge amount of experience and advice that share on a regular basis here on R2R that aren't Reefsquad members. Their contributions speak for themselves.

As stated, Reefsquad members are here to help when they can. We are volunteers here and do not get paid to do so. We have responsibilities outside of R2R. We have family's, jobs and our own households that come first.

It is of our own willingness and hearts to aid members with their questions. We do the best we can and see questions of every aspect one could ever imagine asked. We are, as are regular members, not versed in every topic nor experts in everything reef related, But as a popular insurance commercial says, "we have seen a thing or two"! Lol. When we can't answer questions, we commonly ask other Reefsquad members to chime in. We do, on a regular basis, spend time trying to answer "unanswered" threads. Believe me, at times there is a huge number of them.

Over all, the Reefsquad is pretty darn good at it. I've seen this time and time again and I'm very proud to be apart of such selfless, dedicated individuals of the Reefsquad. They are my friends.

On the topic of mentoring, this what we all do here. Reefsquad and membership alike. We are a community and are open to all thoughts and input, good or bad. Just because one may disagree with someone's input, doesn't always make it bad. This is how we have progressed in hobby, ideas sometimes outside the box fuel ideas.

There are many, many, many different ways to reef. Yours will most likely be different than mine. That's what makes this hobby and this site so special.

 

[Musovski]

I like this

 

[Musovski]

Also. My mentor was and is Crabs with a bunch of others, especially my group that I’m constantly in contact with through my thread and katrinas. Other than that it’s all on my own

 

[DSC reef]

Also. My mentor was and is Crabs. Crabs has helped me most. Other than that it’s all on my own

This is where a problem can lie. I feel many people have helped you even if its words of encouragement, not just one single member. Although crabs is a great mentor

 

[Musovski]

This is where a problem can lie. I feel many people have helped you even if its words of encouragement, not just one single member.

I’ve edited it. Didn’t come out how I meant it

 

[Brew12]

I just saw a need, that now I am told is already been filled.


It seems that some of the reef squad have taken offense at my suggestion of a program like this and this was NEVER my intent.

Like I said, I had no clue what the purpose of reef squad really was until this thread.

I'm not sure that need has been filled. The RS is fantastic, as are many of the contributing and active members, but it isn't a mentorship program. Some of these volunteers may help 80 different people a day. You can't spread yourself that thin and still be effective at mentoring someone that needs more hands on. I just don't feel it can be formalized or organized through R2R. I was looking at some numbers. 3,000+ members and 5,000+ guests logged in at a slower period this morning. This site is massive. R2R doesn't have the resources to try and even manage a user organized mentorship program that could be effective. This is also why we rely on our members to help guide people. We have a great RS team but they couldn't keep up with all the questions and concerns that people have. We need everyone's help who has the knowledge and desire to share.

I would never try to take on the role of a mentor. I'm pretty strong when it comes to setting up a new system and fish QT practices but I almost never give coral advice. I am learning every day but I am very far from qualified and often post questions in the coral sections trying to learn more.

I'm thinking it may be worthwhile to put together an article, or at least a post, with some solid recommendations on what to look for when it comes to who to take advice from. And, as always, a picture is worth a thousand words. If you look at my tank you have no expectation that I could help with leather corals. I've never owned one. Don't ask me for general guidance on how to best set up a nano tank, I've never done it. If you want help setting up a larger mixed reef I can probably offer some advice. If you want the brightest colors on your coral, I'm not there yet. In my opinion, I would avoid taking advice seriously unless they can show a picture of their efforts, are willing to openly discuss their problems and solutions, they can prove it using equations and/or math, or they can link scientific articles.

I mean, seriously.... When Don @Flippers4pups can show you a FTS that looks like this.

Why would you take advice from someone who has a tank that looks like this? (my tank, btw...)

 

[dantimdad]

I honestly think we need to delete this thread.

I never meant for something so positive to cause such an argument.

Please, mods, delete this post.

 

[jsker]

Great conversation all!

I have learned a lot from the members here on R2R and formed some good friendships over my time here.

I have also and do enjoy helping others with what I know and have learned by help others or referring members to the Reefsquad or members that I have come across that have a better understanding than I in area that I am weak in.

One thing to point out is to watch threads and follow members that one feels the will help in ones reefing journey.