Metal Halides for Small Tank?

[djf91]

Thanks so much for the pictures! my question with the 250s is would that produce too much par over that size of an area? And also, what is the difference between single ended and double ended? Say a single ended produces less light (I have no idea if that’s correct) then going the 250 route (due to my concerns about too much par) a single ended would be the better option?

You really don’t need to worry about too much par with MH. I would say keep the light 12-16 inches off the water.

 

[DIYreefer]

If humidity is low enough.

Maybe. Although it never seemed to make a difference for me. I keep the humidity level in my house around 55-60% and outside is around 80+% the vast majority of the year. I live in a swamp, basically. Lol.

 

[The_Paradox]

Don’t listen to the people saying it’ll use more electricity than LED….silly marketing bs from the LED companies. This has been debunked.

What. What. Are you being serious?

 

[Black Dog Reefing]

Don’t listen to the people saying it’ll use more electricity than LED….silly marketing bs from the LED companies. This has been debunked.

Okay so i’m feeling better about electricity and heat, now i just need to decide one single ended/ double ended and which wattage to choose. any advice on these two options? i like the idea of 250 as long as it’s not too much.

 

[Black Dog Reefing]

You really don’t need to worry about too much par with MH. I would say keep the light 12-16 inches off the water.

so then a be brainer to go with the 250 it seems to me right?

 

[Reefing102]

Thanks so much for the pictures! my question with the 250s is would that produce too much par over that size of an area? And also, what is the difference between single ended and double ended? Say a single ended produces less light (I have no idea if that’s correct) then going the 250 route (due to my concerns about too much par) a single ended would be the better option?

If mounted 12-18 inches above the water as mentioned I wouldn’t worry about par. My halides are mounted about 14” above the water. Depending though, you may need to do an acclimation period adjusting your corals from LED to halide (mainly achieved by running a shorter photoperiod).

As for the difference between single ended (SE) and double ended (DE), I honestly don’t believe there’s much of a difference as far as power goes. There used to be a difference I believe when running radium’s where people would overdrive the bulb to get the best color out of it but that’s not really a huge thing any more as radium’s have been discontinued (@A. grandis or others may be able to tell more about this).

One other difference, depending as I don’t know how ReefBrite manufactures their set ups so their sockets may be different, but I have some single ended retrofit kits where the socket can handle up to 1000W bulb (no need for a different socket when changing watts (I believe that’s true for even the lower wattages as long as it has the correct base for the socket and correct ballast to power the bulb))

SE bulbs also appear to be more available than DE bulbs but otherwise I’d go with whatever you want.

As for the electricity usage, I fall in the “it depends category”. Just running the LED pucks, you’re going to be using less electricity generally. However many people run LEDs plus T5 supplements or a multitude of LED fixtures for shadowing prevention and now their electricity usage is at or more than halides

 

[djf91]

If mounted 12-18 inches above the water as mentioned I wouldn’t worry about par. My halides are mounted about 14” above the water. Depending though, you may need to do an acclimation period adjusting your corals from LED to halide (mainly achieved by running a shorter photoperiod).

As for the difference between single ended (SE) and double ended (DE), I honestly don’t believe there’s much of a difference as far as power goes. There used to be a difference I believe when running radium’s where people would overdrive the bulb to get the best color out of it but that’s not really a huge thing any more as radium’s have been discontinued (@A. grandis or others may be able to tell more about this).

One other difference, depending as I don’t know how ReefBrite manufactures their set ups so their sockets may be different, but I have some single ended retrofit kits where the socket can handle up to 1000W bulb (no need for a different socket when changing watts (I believe that’s true for even the lower wattages as long as it has the correct base for the socket and correct ballast to power the bulb))

SE bulbs also appear to be more available than DE bulbs but otherwise I’d go with whatever you want.

As for the electricity usage, I fall in the “it depends category”. Just running the LED pucks, you’re going to be using less electricity generally. However many people run LEDs plus T5 supplements or a multitude of LED fixtures for shadowing prevention and now their electricity usage is at or more than halides

This is what I was getting at. To do LEDs right, covering the whole foot print, and trying to avoid shadowing you are going to end up using pretty close to the same amount of watts as you would metal halide. Then there’s the fact you are not running your heater nearly as much because of the metal halides warming your tank. The electricity savings come down to almost a wash.

 

[A. grandis]

SE bulbs are easier to find now and allows us to just swap the bulb to change wattage in any fixture. Electronic selectable ballasts will make it a breeze during the hard to find gear times that we are in. We should think about a wider angle of options and to choose SE bulbs now is certainly an advantage.
To change DE bulb wattages will need also to change the sockets!
I hope the market to get better soon! The main problem now is to find raw materials to produce metal halide gear, as per Hamilton. Demand is still significant for bulbs, ballasts and fixtures, they still say. They are trying their best and they didn't give up as far as I know. A recycle program incorporated in the market of bulbs would be a very intelligent move today. To advertise is the key, if the shelves become full again! The hope is the last to die!
In regards to Radium... I've already mentioned, and many of the halide users on this forum know, that the 250W Hamilton 20K has a very similar spectrum to 250W 20K Radium. See chart bellow.
I would go with a 175W-250W 14K lamps for such a shallow grow out tank. Perhaps would be a good idea to start with 20K bulbs, because the corals are coming from LEDs. Much smoother adaptation using 20Ks. Then change later to 14K lamps. It would be great to start with 175W and then, if so, later try to advance to the 250W. Adaptation is so important IMO! The longer the corals are under LEDs, the longer the adaptation needs to be, technically/generally speaking. Now... I know we will hear some friends chiming in saying they have changed from LEDs to halides and you don't need to worry much about adaptation cause they didn't have much problems, and it was fine...halides are indeed much more forgiving than LEDs to adapt to a higher intensity! Again... the pigment formation and adaptation from LEDs to halide will be much faster in the long run if it is done slowly in the beginning. It could take a year or more in some cases to fully appreciate the changes in pigment production with light changes. What happens is that when people change they are fast as notify their friends how amazing the halides are... later, after a year, sometimes they will go even crazier with the colors... Try not to add too much additives to pull out those colors, cause you won't need. Halides are already able to give you the colors when you feed the fish and do water changes with proper params!!! Make sure you have fish in the system to help the coral's adaptation. Bring down the hours to 1 or 2 a day and slowly increase the photoperiod to what you need. Go back if you notice bleaching! It will take much longer to heal from bleaching in a low nutrient system. If you go slow you won't have any bleaching!!! You can have halides on for 1 hours for 2 or 3 days... then 2 hours for 3 to 4 days... then 3 hours for 3 days, 4 hours for 5 days... something like that.
The LED X halide arguments in regards to electricity is already set and we know it was one of the marketing strategies that LED manufacturers used to "replace" metal halides with their LEDs. I've been saying that since 2010 or so... Those who are still trying to use that argument, please go do your search and spend time learning about that. It has it's variables, but in the end it's just an excuse in the great majority of the cases! This is a halide thread. I think it's time to show the respect halide users have not going to every and each LED thread trying to show LEDs users how halides are "much better for their application".
So we have different personal preferences and priorities.
Everyone needs their space to talk bout their personal preferences and I'm so happy that now we see metal halide users discussing their interesting without 30+ LED users coming to close a halide thread! Thanks!
I talked about that and other metal halide subjects last week on ReefBum.
Halides are so great that it is almost impossible to get it wrong, when you take your time to adapt the system to them. You won't believe in the results of pigmentation, colony structure, natural growth rates and how health the coral tissue will be in the end of the story!!! The corals will love you forever!!!!!!!! I'm happy to see so many friends giving so many great tips in this thread!!! Halide rules in so many aspects! It's a great choice among the other technologies!!!
Gotta love ACROS!!!

 

[Black Dog Reefing]

SE bulbs are easier to find now and allows us to just swap the bulb to change wattage in any fixture. Electronic selectable ballasts will make it a breeze during the hard to find gear times that we are in. We should think about a wider angle of options and to choose SE bulbs now is certainly an advantage.
To change DE bulb wattages will need also to change the sockets!
I hope the market to get better soon! The main problem now is to find raw materials to produce metal halide gear, as per Hamilton. Demand is still significant for bulbs, ballasts and fixtures, they still say. They are trying their best and they didn't give up as far as I know. A recycle program incorporated in the market of bulbs would be a very intelligent move today. To advertise is the key, if the shelves become full again! The hope is the last to die!
In regards to Radium... I've already mentioned, and many of the halide users on this forum know, that the 250W Hamilton 20K has a very similar spectrum to 250W 20K Radium. See chart bellow.
I would go with a 175W-250W 14K lamps for such a shallow grow out tank. Perhaps would be a good idea to start with 20K bulbs, because the corals are coming from LEDs. Much smoother adaptation using 20Ks. Then change later to 14K lamps. It would be great to start with 175W and then, if so, later try to advance to the 250W. Adaptation is so important IMO! The longer the corals are under LEDs, the longer the adaptation needs to be, technically/generally speaking. Now... I know we will hear some friends chiming in saying they have changed from LEDs to halides and you don't need to worry much about adaptation cause they didn't have much problems, and it was fine...halides are indeed much more forgiving than LEDs to adapt to a higher intensity! Again... the pigment formation and adaptation from LEDs to halide will be much faster in the long run if it is done slowly in the beginning. It could take a year or more in some cases to fully appreciate the changes in pigment production with light changes. What happens is that when people change they are fast as notify their friends how amazing the halides are... later, after a year, sometimes they will go even crazier with the colors... Try not to add too much additives to pull out those colors, cause you won't need. Halides are already able to give you the colors when you feed the fish and do water changes with proper params!!! Make sure you have fish in the system to help the coral's adaptation. Bring down the hours to 1 or 2 a day and slowly increase the photoperiod to what you need. Go back if you notice bleaching! It will take much longer to heal from bleaching in a low nutrient system. If you go slow you won't have any bleaching!!! You can have halides on for 1 hours for 2 or 3 days... then 2 hours for 3 to 4 days... then 3 hours for 3 days, 4 hours for 5 days... something like that.
The LED X halide arguments in regards to electricity is already set and we know it was one of the marketing strategies that LED manufacturers used to "replace" metal halides with their LEDs. I've been saying that since 2010 or so... Those who are still trying to use that argument, please go do your search and spend time learning about that. It has it's variables, but in the end it's just an excuse in the great majority of the cases! This is a halide thread. I think it's time to show the respect halide users have not going to every and each LED thread trying to show LEDs users how halides are "much better for their application".
So we have different personal preferences and priorities.
Everyone needs their space to talk bout their personal preferences and I'm so happy that now we see metal halide users discussing their interesting without 30+ LED users coming to close a halide thread! Thanks!
I talked about that and other metal halide subjects last week on ReefBum.
Halides are so great that it is almost impossible to get it wrong, when you take your time to adapt the system to them. You won't believe in the results of pigmentation, colony structure, natural growth rates and how health the coral tissue will be in the end of the story!!! The corals will love you forever!!!!!!!! I'm happy to see so many friends giving so many great tips in this thread!!! Halide rules in so many aspects! It's a great choice among the other technologies!!!
Gotta love ACROS!!!

Awesome little mini article! Thanks a ton for all the input! I feel much more confident in making the switch now. Luckily, most of the acros going under this light are coming from a tank running halides now so acclimation, while still important, should be very smooth. Really last question (as I think i’ve decide to go with a 175w SE fixture ((roughly 12inches off the surface if that sounds right?)) What ballast do I go with? I like this fixture (attached below) and the way I understand it is I can put any ballast/ bulb in I want from 70w-400w correct? So if i buy that fixture I just need to find a bulb (i think i’ll start with 14k as that’s what the frags are coming from) and a 175w ballast? I’ve seen many different options on this front, from electronically to non, from reef-focused manufactures to more light specific, is there a difference in this? What is the preferred route?

 

[RedoubtReef]

Yes, that fixture will run multiple wattage bulbs. You just need the appropriate ballast. Reefbrite makes one that will run 150/175/250 watt bulbs. For 400w you would need a 400w ballast but I bet you will be just fine at 250w unless you plan to put it over a really large tank.

 

[Black Dog Reefing]

Okay I cannot for the life of me find a ballast! Does anyone know where I can purchase one nowadays???

 

[A. grandis]

Okay I cannot for the life of me find a ballast! Does anyone know where I can purchase one nowadays???

Reef Brite – The Professional's Choice

www.reefbrite.com

Contact – Reef Brite

www.reefbrite.com

ReefBrite has their electronic ballast and now their new magnetic ballasts.
They also just released a new T5 fixture!!!

 

[djf91]

Reef Brite – The Professional's Choice

www.reefbrite.com

Contact – Reef Brite

www.reefbrite.com

ReefBrite has their electronic ballast and now their new magnetic ballasts.
They also just released a new T5 fixture!!!

Any idea when they’ll have DE bulbs again?

 

[Black Dog Reefing]

Reef Brite – The Professional's Choice

www.reefbrite.com

Contact – Reef Brite

www.reefbrite.com

ReefBrite has their electronic ballast and now their new magnetic ballasts.
They also just released a new T5 fixture!!!

but you can’t buy directly from them can you??

 

[A. grandis]

Any idea when they’ll have DE bulbs again?

I don't know when they will be able to restock their bulbs.
As far as I know Hamilton is working had to get some of their halide gear back in stock!

but you can’t buy directly from them can you??

That is the only way of communication I know of.
I've asked them to put their gear on the website for so many times... I don't think they have their new magnetic ballasts there, but those ballasts are available now. Tullio doesn't get involved with the the sales department of the company. Please don't ask me why, cause I have no idea.
I suggested to place the prices online, to put links to be able to sell. I also suggested so many times to do some advertise! It would be great to have a recycle plan attached to the pruchase of each lamp. I wish they would ship to other countries...
I,m sorry, but I can only do so much to help everyone that wants halides, unfortunately. I don't work in the aquarium industry at all. I'm just a hobbyist.

 

[Troylee]

Okay I cannot for the life of me find a ballast! Does anyone know where I can purchase one nowadays???

Reef Brite Digitally Controlled MH Ballast 400W

This energy saving, water tight solid state metal halide ballast will provide years of maintenance-free use. With a lower operating cost, Reef Brite ballasts use less power. Built in microprocessor constantly monitors the lamp and other components to keep the entire system working at optimal...

premiumaquatics.com

 

[Troylee]

It says 400 watt but that’s the selectable ballast you want.. maybe give them a call to place the order so you get the right one. Link is 400 but description and pictures is the adjustable one.

 

[Black Dog Reefing]

Reef Brite Digitally Controlled MH Ballast 400W

This energy saving, water tight solid state metal halide ballast will provide years of maintenance-free use. With a lower operating cost, Reef Brite ballasts use less power. Built in microprocessor constantly monitors the lamp and other components to keep the entire system working at optimal...

premiumaquatics.com

i’m looking for the 250 version or else that would already be on its way to me haha

 

[jda]

There is a 2x2x2 cube in my signature that I ran a 250w HQI over for a year. Some of the photos are gone now, but outgrew the tank in one year. No heat issues. Open top.

I now have a smaller tank with zoas, palys, mushrooms and a few nems in it on 150w HQI. Plenty of light.

400w is a LOT of light. I would use a 250 or 175 SE and keep the fixture closer to the water. Open top will take care of most heat issues, but a fan can help if you need it to.

 

[jda]

I do use DE/HQI bulbs, but I cannot recommend them right now. The bulb selection is in flux with Phoenix not knowing if they are going to do another production run - they make a bunch and then take them out of production and have done this a few times. Others also are not committing to DE bulbs.

Stick with SE bulbs for now.

Also, find a used fixture and ballast. No need to spend eight hundo on a new one unless you just really like the looks. You can get super high quality complete MH solutions near me for $50 if you look a bit. ...like stuff that will last for a decade.