Metal halide's yellow pop.

[CC_N]

This morning i've came to my friends house and he found two metal halide fixture some where. He got some yellow tang and a foxface lo. His fishes color were very bright and bold. but after toggling with my light i achieved quite the same bold color of hí fishes but not the yellow. Any idea ?

 

[oreo54]

This morning i've came to my friends house and he found two metal halide fixture some where. He got some yellow tang and a foxface lo. His fishes color were very bright and bold. but after toggling with my light i achieved quite the same bold color of hí fishes but not the yellow. Any idea ?

Really need to provide more info on all the lights involved
Due to different spectrum components color differences are not uncommon.

 

[CC_N]

His are radion 20k without supplement led and mine are radion g5 pros

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

The reds and yellows in the light spectrum probably make the fish pop yes.
D

 

[oreo54]

His are radion 20k without supplement led and mine are radion g5 pros

Metal halides have a spike emission in the amber spectrum. Doesn't t look like much but the surrounding nm's are lower.
In the g5 pro the only strong yellow/amber
diode is warm white which I suspect you run quite low.
You may have a fair amount of yellow in the cool white diodes but it depends on the k temp and again how high you are running them. Problem w/ cool leds is even with the yellow/green component they still have a tendency to wash out color.

Substitute warm for cool white see if that helps.

Only guesses.

A lot depends on what the fish pigments reflect vs absorbs.

If diy use pc amber or reg amber diodes or find a fixture with them.

Each light has different strengths and weaknesses in displaying certain colors.

 

[CC_N]

Oh god I’m not expert in this but I’ll try spiking up my warm white.

 

[jda]

Fish in my nursery/anemone tank look pretty similar under the g4 Radion that I have as under a 14k Phoenix if I turn all of the channels on to the same level. They still look a bit washed out. You can sometimes see the rainbow prism from the Radion a bit on the sides of metallic looking fish. However, this is not g5.

If you want things to look yellow, you need yellow to be able to be straight reflected.

In the end, you won't duplicate the look exactly, but you should be able to get close. It has been more than a decade with LEDs and everybody has tried and it still has not happened... and I don't care about some theory that says that it should be obtainable since it has not happened yet. I am not trying to say that one or the other is better, or anything, just that some things cannot be done.

 

[oreo54]

They still look a bit washed out. You can sometimes see the rainbow prism from the Radion a bit on the sides of metallic looking fish. However, this is not g5.

If you want things to look yellow, you need yellow to be able to be straight reflected.

In the end, you won't duplicate the look exactly, but you should be able to get close. It has been more than a decade with LEDs and everybody has tried and it still has not happened...

Sorry stil agree to disagree.. Get me a $$ backer and I'll design a halide for you.
Pretty sure almost every attempt used some form of white led which in the past were ..err garbage.
None probably did RGB emulation nor was using amber common.

I'd really like to see some of these failed arrays and what diodes they used.

In all honesty shopping the exact diodes one needs would be a daunting task more than likely. No brand loyalty and well binned diodes..

Impossible not ever likely, impractical probably..so might as well be impossible.
Certainly no commercial way unless one does their own phosphor packing..

 

[Bpb]

Sorry stil agree to disagree.. Get me a $$ backer and I'll design a halide for you.
Pretty sure almost every attempt used some form of white led which in the past were ..err garbage.
None probably did RGB emulation nor was using amber common.

I'd really like to see some of these failed arrays and what diodes they used.

In all honesty shopping the exact diodes one needs would be a daunting task more than likely. No brand loyalty and well binned diodes..

Impossible not ever likely, impractical probably..so might as well be impossible.
Certainly no commercial way unless one does their own phosphor packing..

Try as you may, it’s like trying to mop the beach. I’d say all but a trace few saltwater hobbyists are unaware of the specialty diodes you attempt to educate the community on. I appreciate the info just for the knowledge obtained, but in the minds of reef keepers overall, the only options out there are commonly commercially available reef specific prefabricated units.

Even with commonly available units. Bold fish colors can be had, you just have to get out of that “anything over 15% on any non-blue channel is heresy” mindset.

 

[oreo54]

Metal halides aren't even the same color on different ballasts nor over time. Splitting hairs.
See see peaks stay yet some recede based on ballast.

And no it's not just "specialty" diodes just the right ones from the right manuf.
As we all know cheap and available is the commercial market speek..
Like they are listed 6500k Bridgelux high CRI COBS are err listed but unless you are a manuf wanting 10,000 you need to settle for 5500k high cri COBs. There is a difference in look.
Like I said not impossible just not practical.

Cyan is a major component in ocean light yet few ever used them. Why? CREE was the buzz word and they didn't have one in their stable, at least easily available. So... compromises.. always compromises.
Manuf prefer to get as many parts from one vendor as possible
There were a lot of LED mistake paths historically here..

I technically only disagree on the "impossible" part of your discussion. No more no less. I do want to explain, as I see it, why there were failures.

Not to be too sarcastic but they may be aware but who ever tried. Sadly my experiments are fw related mostly and posts here are for "interest" only..
AND few venture into DIY..

 

[jda]

I am sure that you are the only smart one and way smarter than people who actually do this. Links and saying "it is just physics" does not get you anywhere. Are you the guy who thinks that the person who runs your company is an idiot and you can do it better, or all of your professors are dumber than you are?

If you could do this, you would get rich... so do it or stop telling everybody that you can.

 

[oreo54]

I am sure that you are the only smart one and way smarter than people who actually do this. Links and saying "it is just physics" does not get you anywhere. Are you the guy who thinks that the person who runs your company is an idiot and you can do it better, or all of your professors are dumber than you are?

If you could do this, you would get rich... so do it or stop telling everybody that you can.

If I was going to build a 14000k mh "emulator" in LED this is where I'd start. Ever see ANYONE do it like this?
no whites..
BTW: I'm not smarter just more stubborn.
A few minutes work...

Baking instructions.. Remember Tuillos words.. spectrum counts..
no it isn't "exactly" that simple..
ignore power ratings, used simple 1w diodes.
could probably replace all the ambers with a PCAmber.

* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
LED UV (390nm) [120°] x0.5
LED Violet (420nm) [120°] x1.5
LED RoyalBlue (450nm) [120°] x2
LED Blue (460nm) [120°] x1.5
LED Cyan (490nm) [120°] x2
LED Green (540nm) [120°] x7
LED Amber (580nm) [120°] x1
LED Amber (590nm) [120°] x1
LED Amber (600nm) [120°] x1
LED Red (630nm) [120°] x0.3
LED DeepRed (660nm) [120°] x0.4
LED DeepRed (680nm) [120°] x1
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 1,116 lm
Radiant flux : 4,353 mW
PPF : 18.1 umol/s
TCP : 18180 K
CRI : 61
λp : 452 nm
Color : #83ABFF
----------------------------------------

* PERFORMANCE @ 45cm
----------------------------------------
Irradiance : 2.3 W/m²/s
Illuminance : 585 lx
PPFD : 9.5 umol/m²/s
----------------------------------------

Green diodes are always problematic. Wish they weren't sooo sloppy. One area that you can't quite match metal halides in..

 

[Brymac1]

I didn’t know that my yellow tang looked washed out until I added t5s to my kessils. Now he really pops.

 

[oreo54]

I didn’t know that my yellow tang looked washed out until I added t5s to my kessils. Now he really pops.

T5's have the amber spike and uses RGB phosphors not blue plus yellow like leds..
It makes a BIG difference.

I'll save my comments on Kessils.. and their spectrum choices. BUT they did add amber to the new model.
Gee go figure.. sorry..

 

[oreo54]

I am sure that you are the only smart one and way smarter than people who actually do this. Links and saying "it is just physics" does not get you anywhere. Are you the guy who thinks that the person who runs your company is an idiot and you can do it better, or all of your professors are dumber than you are?

If you could do this, you would get rich... so do it or stop telling everybody that you can.

You know it takes a lot of hubris to say "Since my "friends" can't do it nobody can".
I try not to go personal as a matter of etiquette but I slip sometimes.

Get rich off aquarium LED lights.. not likely. I'd go bankrupt just selling at what "I" consider a fair price. LOL
And there is a lot more to retailing lights than just spectrum.
Plastic castings, machining, boxing,advertising plus capita, luck, and tooling ..really not my thing ATM.
There are SOOOOO many spectrums that work I find it hard to even try to sell "one".
Best I do is offer alternative designs based on current logic.

BTW...
Professors weren't dumber but some of the TA's certainly were..
As to bosses.. 50/50
Tesla died in poverty.. Intelligence is no guarantee of success any more than being an idiot is no guarantee of failure.

You know think of it as engineers, teams, most of which make jack compared to the bosses but they are the ones who know what works.

BTW my composite had alignment errors that bugged me so I redid it and stripped it down to 10 easily found diodes..added IR

Enjoy..The LED ones are 1W, the myData are more on the line of 3w so ratios are a bit screwy.
"Full spectrum" are those cheap horticulture diodes w/ a rb pump and red phosphors only.

Food for thought.