Micro Scrubbing Bubbles.

[Squamosa]

Maybe a little more understanding why it works for ppl and not for others.
It's just not like drilling a hole in your pump or sticking a wood air stone UNDER the return pump.

Also you want to run this on a timer during the night using either a air-pump with a wood stone diffuser under there or a solenoid if you go with a Mazzei Venturi attached to your return pump.
The reason EC is using a Limewood airstone is that it create about 5% of the Micronano bubbles, ceramic dics are better but they clog a lot.
Drilling a hole in your return pump isn't by far the same, it looks impressive though but not the same.
Meaning depending on pore size and shearing of the water and then the shearing again of the bubbles with a sharp edged impeller, you'd get even smaller bubbles, with the limewood airstone we are getting 45um to around 120um... with more being on a slightly larger size... those rise to the surface quickly and are eliminated from the dwelling... so far with me?
So what we are left with are the smaller sized ones that dwell for hours and sometimes days...
Even if we were producing 5% microbubbles per pass, 95% are rejected by bouyancy... 5% of the generation is still viable over time, the 5%'s add up and you get a hazy look, not a truly cloudy one.
The pictures taken on EC FB page and website are "in motion" so many hobbyists think that there's a ton of obscuring bubbles and the cloudiness didn't happen instantaneously... it was generated over a period of 30 minutes to an hour.
If you are taking on too much air, you'll notice a HUGE decrease in flow, if that happens, all you do is scoot the diffuser away from the intake.
Located the airstone or disc between the weir from the refugium to the return pump chamber... that way, once again, the larger bubbles are "taken out of the equation" and the truly suspended bubbles are caught in the high volume laminar flow in that water fall area and delivered to the return pump.
This also ensures NO SUPER SATURATION of air into the DT.
You want to create a soft and gentle is desired... loftly like a fog... and a cloud, not jet propulsion.
I hope this all makes sense.
.

Like a bell!
We are trying to create a vortex in an inner chamber (that sits in an outer chamber) that shears the bubbles into smaller sizes and can get results of water cloudiness you mention, in about 15-20 minutes.

I think that's how far we we will get with that design unless we ramp up the pump pressure as the Japanese do with their nano-bubblers and add a ceramic nozzle on for good measure.

 

[Ectogamut]

After dealing with dinos for nearly a year now, I'm on day 4 of the EC method and I see no difference in the development of my particular strain (Ostreopis siamensis - confirmed under microscrope). I've resorted to a 3-day blackout about once a month now, just to manage the problem, but the bubbles either aren't doing what they're claimed to do, or I'm not doing it right. However, I've had several conversations with the founder of the method, who has confirmed that I have been following the method to the letter. The claim is that this battle is one of bacteria vs. dinos and that the bubbles keep the bacteria alive longer to allow them to outcompete the dinos. Perhaps the geniuses here can confirm or deny this claim, but I haven't seen it come to fruition up to this point. I have measured a slight increase in my pH levels (from 8 to 8.1), but other than that, no extra coral vitality, PE, growth, etc.

 

[Diesel]

Like a bell!
We are trying to create a vortex in an inner chamber (that sits in an outer chamber) that shears the bubbles into smaller sizes and can get results of water cloudiness you mention, in about 15-20 minutes.

I think that's how far we we will get with that design unless we ramp up the pump pressure as the Japanese do with their nano-bubblers and add a ceramic nozzle on for good measure.

Exactly, you want only the Micronano bubbles enter the pump.
That's why you set the airstone or disc away from your return pump but the flow through your sump will get the 80 to 50 micro bubbles and shred them to Micronano bubbles.

 

[Squamosa]

day 4

Like Diesel said..it didn't work overnight, so what gives?

Give it time...report back after 10-15 days

 

[Squamosa]

HUGE decrease in flow

Your return pump will just cavitate!

 

[Ectogamut]

Like Diesel said..it didn't work overnight, so what gives?

Give it time...report back after 10-15 days

I'm not trying to say that it doesn't work. I'm simply sharing my experience with the method thus far, and from what I've experienced, I'm remaining skeptical. I don't expect to work overnight. If my expectations were that lofty, I probably would have given up and fed my fish by now.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

I asked before and did not get any answer will ask again cause I have read the post but also did not get any answers.

What are the pros for doing this ? what way does it help our tanks ? Like how it helps corals and fish.

I'm not knocking it just want to know how it helps.

 

[cb684]

I asked before and did not get any answer will ask again cause I have read the post but also did not get any answers.

What are the pros for doing this ? what way does it help our tanks ? Like how it helps corals and fish.

I'm not knocking it just want to know how it helps.

What makes sense to me is that this can either decrease organics due to the negative charges in the micro-nano bubbles, or increase O2 saturation (if the air you are injecting has more O2 saturation than your tank). The rest of the claims are still on the works (at least in this thread).

 

[Squamosa]

I'm not trying to say that it doesn't work. I'm simply sharing my experience with the method thus far, and from what I've experienced, I'm remaining skeptical. I don't expect to work overnight. If my expectations were that lofty, I probably would have given up and fed my fish by now.

I know dinos can be a pain, but if you are following the guidelines and have good flow in your tank, I believe you should see some results in 10-15 days

 

[Squamosa]

I asked before and did not get any answer will ask again cause I have read the post but also did not get any answers.

What are the pros for doing this ? what way does it help our tanks ? Like how it helps corals and fish.

I'm not knocking it just want to know how it helps.

Try my thread, I mention the alleged Pro's in the first comment

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/micro-and-nano-bubble-tank-treatment.231894/

 

[Greenstreet.1]

What makes sense to me is that this can either decrease organics due to the negative charges in the micro-nano bubbles, or increase O2 saturation (if the air you are injecting has more O2 saturation than your tank). The rest of the claims are still on the works (at least in this thread).

Ok so for now it does nothing new I can just add air to my skimmer for that 02 issue. Thank you for your time and reply.

 

[cb684]

Ok so for now it does nothing new I can just add air to my skimmer for that 02 issue. Thank you for your time and reply.

Well, one of the variables is how much of really micro-nano bubbles are being injected. It seems that most of the bubbles are larger than 100 um and thus leave the water column too fast. Once this variable is "less variable" and as we have more time of observation there might be more clear results. But you are right, the discussion is still based on very little measurable, repeatable results.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Thanks. This made my day, and reminded me why it is worthwhile to stick with conversations and not to lose my cool. Your private message made my day yesterday by the way!

To the guy that said that public aquariums have been using bubbles for years and then raked me over the coals for asking which public aquariums do that, I would still like to know! Thanks in advance.

Hey Rich
Carlson Surge Device... the Vortex squeezes the air column in the surge tank in the "whirlpool" as the surge device drains...
Look at Joe's Video at time 12:00 on...

 

[cb684]

I am still waiting on the response from a micro-nano bubble nozzle manufacturer/importer. I wanted to try this with as many nano bubbles as I can. As soon I can get that, I will test it in a small frag system that has some cyano... I want to burst it once every hour during the night... I will give more information about the methodology I will test once I am ready to start.

 

[Reeflogic]

That's why you set the airstone or disc away from your return pump but the flow through your sump will get the 80 to 50 micro bubbles and shred them to Micronano bubbles.

This is why I have my tiny venturi pump to the right side of my intake, pushing the smaller bubbles to the return. The bigger bubbles come right to the surface before the intake can suck them in. My display (during bubble operation) does appear cloudy and I can still view corals, it's not like one big cloud of smoke, just "cloudy". I also do not see the popping bubbles that we would see inside a skimmer, where it's pushing little bursts of water above the tank surface, creating salt spray. What I see is like smoke on the surface of the water, very fine vapor floating just above the surface, viewed under my Kessils. Would you say this is the same size bubble as you are referring to from the limewood diffusers?

@Squamosa said earlier he had the same size bubble results from the Sicce pump as compared to the wood diffusers, so I'm wondering if maybe I'm not getting small enough bubbles! I trust in what Squamosa said, but always good to get multiple opinions!!

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Oh, I like this

What would you estimate the size of the microbubbles to be?
Do they stay in the water column for a length of time after the pump stops...say, 10 min or more?

Too big and coarse... that's the issue why a skimmer pump with needle wheel was not utilized because the bubble size is not dependent on the width of the needles...

 

[Reefahholic]

Check out this video on YouTube:

 

[Reefahholic]

If your display is not cloudy, the bubbles are too big or you have very little.

This is why I have my tiny venturi pump to the right side of my intake, pushing the smaller bubbles to the return. The bigger bubbles come right to the surface before the intake can suck them in. My display (during bubble operation) does appear cloudy and I can still view corals, it's not like one big cloud of smoke, just "cloudy". I also do not see the popping bubbles that we would see inside a skimmer, where it's pushing little bursts of water above the tank surface, creating salt spray. What I see is like smoke on the surface of the water, very fine vapor floating just above the surface, viewed under my Kessils. Would you say this is the same size bubble as you are referring to from the limewood diffusers?

@Squamosa said earlier he had the same size bubble results from the Sicce pump as compared to the wood diffusers, so I'm wondering if maybe I'm not getting small enough bubbles! I trust in what Squamosa said, but always good to get multiple opinions!!

 

[Reefahholic]

Mine stay in the water column for hours if the pumps are on. Super tiny bubbles.

Well, one of the variables is how much of really micro-nano bubbles are being injected. It seems that most of the bubbles are larger than 100 um and thus leave the water column too fast. Once this variable is "less variable" and as we have more time of observation there might be more clear results. But you are right, the discussion is still based on very little measurable, repeatable results.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I am still waiting on the response from a micro-nano bubble nozzle manufacturer/importer. I wanted to try this with as many nano bubbles as I can. As soon I can get that, I will test it in a small frag system that has some cyano... I want to burst it once every hour during the night... I will give more information about the methodology I will test once I am ready to start.

This was the whole point of demonstrating through proof of concept "repeatability" by independent reefers that had no ties to Elegant Corals, LLC in anyway.

Identify the need, find a resolution to an observed issue (or issues) resolve it with the least components as effective to demonstrate the theory, hypothesis and VISIBLE and noticeable results.