Micro Scrubbing Bubbles.

Cruz_Arias · Mar 30, 2016

Ok... how many hobbyists know and understand how reactors and resin media work to bind what you guys call nutrients?

Reefahholic · Mar 30, 2016

Cruz, can you please post the parts we need to replicate the bubbler in the FB video that you feel is superior. I would like to test for myself as I'm sure others would as well. If you would, please elaborate more about how it's made when you post pictures of the parts. Thx

Cruz_Arias · Mar 30, 2016

furam28 said:
Agree. Stick to this message, and not so much with the pseudoscientific "bubbles rubbing, creating charge, electrifying life... " and you're golden.

What other reef product out there uses flowery claims for marketing? I'm agreeing with you btw... lol

Cruz_Arias · Mar 30, 2016

Reefahholic said:
Cruz, can you please post the parts we need to replicate the bubbler in the FB video that you feel is superior. I would like to test for myself as I'm sure others would as well. If you would, please elaborate more about how it's made when you post pictures of the parts. Thx

That device is patented... I'm sorry. Not my design.

I was given one by the person who made it though... for that, I'm thankful.

runzwithscissors · Mar 30, 2016

Awesome! My only question is "Is there a patent pending"? Lol

Cruz_Arias · Mar 30, 2016

cb684 said:
Right, and although there is logic to it, it does not mean that they happen, or that they happen always, or even that the amount that happen is enough to be visible or beneficial.

For example, I have a good skimmer, I dose carbon, and I use filter socks. My ph upper and lower are high (8.45 - 8.11) what implies that I already have a good gas exchange. Would I still see benefits? What about scrubbing is that good or bad? If it is good is it good for all types of coral and livestock? How does it impact cyano (it would appear that would help to get it controlled, but does it?). What about dinoflagellates, would it spread it more or to clean it out? And so on...

This isn't just gas exchange only .

Ectogamut · Mar 30, 2016

cb684 said:
Right, and although there is logic to it, it does not mean that they happen, or that they happen always, or even that the amount that happen is enough to be visible or beneficial.

For example, I have a good skimmer, I dose carbon, and I use filter socks. My ph upper and lower are high (8.45 - 8.11) what implies that I already have a good gas exchange. Would I still see benefits? What about scrubbing is that good or bad? If it is good is it good for all types of coral and livestock? How does it impact cyano (it would appear that would help to get it controlled, but does it?). What about dinoflagellates, would it spread it more or to clean it out? And so on...

Great questions, CB! With my limited experience using nano-bubbles to try and remove dinos, I've seen them accumulate on cyano mats and strands of dino clumps until they detach from their anchor and make their way to the overflow. So in that sense, it would certainly seem to control them. But I also wonder if the method can truly eliminate the problem; are we fighting the symptom or the underlying issue? I will also note that I keep a mixed reef and have not experienced any polyp or tissue recession from any of my coral. My fish do tend to hide most of the time, but they hardly seem stressed.

Cruz_Arias · Mar 30, 2016

runzwithscissors said:
Awesome! My only question is "Is there a patent pending"?

Yes. 3.

Cruz_Arias · Mar 30, 2016

cb684 said:
Right, and although there is logic to it, it does not mean that they happen, or that they happen always, or even that the amount that happen is enough to be visible or beneficial.

For example, I have a good skimmer, I dose carbon, and I use filter socks. My ph upper and lower are high (8.45 - 8.11) what implies that I already have a good gas exchange. Would I still see benefits? What about scrubbing is that good or bad? If it is good is it good for all types of coral and livestock? How does it impact cyano (it would appear that would help to get it controlled, but does it?). What about dinoflagellates, would it spread it more or to clean it out? And so on...

Great Questions, btw, i saw your other thread. Was thinking itd make another great study by someone else who grows sponges...

The ones we do that don't seem affected are the pineapple and the stringy sponges...

Cruz_Arias · Mar 30, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
It may be a thread whether it works or not, but one cannot help but address claims about how it works that are not correct.

Bubbles charge for well understood reasons without movement, and movement does not charge bubbles. Some bubbles even have no charge when the ph is at about the balance point near pH 4.5.

I'm not sure why you are stuck on this point since neither the charge, nor especially how the charge got there it has anything to do with whether the method works to do good things in a reef tank. .

Ahhh... understood now.

We deal with inerts at work... in order to charge some of them they are agitated by currents generated by microbubbles which surprisingly enough we are picking up substatial voltage in our conductivity meter showing additional charge prior to micro bubbles being introduced.

It is documented in a proprietary recipe here at work.

cb684 · Mar 30, 2016

joseph.lucketta said:
Great questions, CB! With my limited experience using nano-bubbles to try and remove dinos, I've seen them accumulate on cyano mats and strands of dino clumps until they detach from their anchor and make their way to the overflow. So in that sense, it would certainly seem to control them. But I also wonder if the method can truly eliminate the problem; are we fighting the symptom or the underlying issue? I will also note that I keep a mixed reef and have not experienced any polyp or tissue recession from any of my coral. My fish do tend to hide most of the time, but they hardly seem stressed.

I was wondering also about something that I read that cyano may come first and than support dinos. So, may be controlling cyano have some impact on controlling some species of dinoflagellates.

Cruz_Arias · Mar 30, 2016

Reefahholic said:
Good idea Lasse, but we got to admit....if Cruz is seeing results...well he's seeing results. Can't argue with that. However, if this is the case, he'll need to keep documenting his results longterm in order to prove his point.

I'm an Engineer... that is part of what i do... reading trend reports, root cause failure analyses, cause and effect fishbone tables. X matrices for reliability and alignment.

Ectogamut · Mar 30, 2016

cb684 said:
I was wondering also about something that I read that cyano may come first and than support dinos. So, may be controlling cyano have some impact on controlling some species of dinoflagellates.

That may be possible, but for me, it was the reverse. I started with what I thought was cyano in May of last year, but was actually dinos. My cyano came later after I messed up my tank while carbon dosing with NOPOX. Now, my cyano issue is gone while my dinos persist.

jakub · Mar 30, 2016

I hate MBS. The only place I permit them is in the skimmer. But I'll try this "bottle of claims" just to have my own opinion.

Cruz_Arias · Mar 30, 2016

jakub said:
I hate MBS. The only place I permit them is in the skimmer. But I'll try this "bottle of claims" just to have my own opinion.

These are NBs

Reefahholic · Mar 30, 2016

Cruz_Arias said:
That device is patented... I'm sorry. Not my design.

I was given one by the person who made it though... for that, I'm thankful.

I see.

twilliard · Mar 30, 2016

I am almost disappointed in this thread.
I read many pages and most all of it is hearsay

Triggerjay · Mar 30, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 30, 2016

Cruz_Arias said:
Ok... how many hobbyists know and understand how reactors and resin media work to bind what you guys call nutrients?

There are different levels of understanding, but I think there are a great many people who basically understand how something like GFO works.

Not, perhaps, the majority of users, but there is also no dispute about how it does work. The people that do not know probably mostly do not care.

That said, GFO resellers are not all immune from making claims that are not true (like, the fact that it is irreversible).

It is, IMO, one of the disappointments of the hobby that so few companies really understand their products, or at least portray them in correct terms.