Micro Scrubbing Bubbles.

[malira]

Oh yea forget there's a wrong and a right way to make the bubbles. I may have to try myself or get a foxface

I had BA real bad but my one spot foxface has cleaned up a lot. I find BA stuck to my powerheads everyday.

I hope this will help starve out the stuff that feeds on organics. I can feed algae sheets.

 

[Thales]

I had BA real bad but my one spot foxface has cleaned up a lot. I find BA stuck to my powerheads everyday.

I hope this will help starve out the stuff that feeds on organics. I can feed algae sheets.

I go at it with a toothbrush to help the fish get ahead of it.

 

[Jonty]

I use outside air for my skimmer which is a ATB 18 Deluxe
Sump when new as you can see big skimmer for a 300DD

Tank

Ph is about .05 better maybe not much PH Change.

 

[Ectogamut]

Thanks. Seems like you did a bunch of stuff - can you let me know what it was a timeline so I can better understand what has been going on with your system?

Sure thing. I keep a daily tank log, so I have a pretty detailed timeline. I typically take a few pics every week that get uploaded to google photos so that I can correlate my log entries with how the tank was looking at any given time.

I'll just start from the beginning of the year since I've been dealing with dinos since May of last year. My primary nutrient export tool up until recently was carbon dosing via Red Sea NO3-PO4-x (NOPOX) with heavy skimming. At the beginning of the year I began a 3-day blackout in conjunction with a regimen of Fauna Marin Dino-X which did nothing except shoot my nitrates through the roof (from 3ppm to 25ppm...maybe not through the roof). By the middle of the month I was trying products from Korallen-Zucht (Cyano Clean, Coral Snow) in addition to NOPOX and Brightwell Microbacter7 to no avail. During this time, my pH was stable at 8.15, Alk between 9.2-9.5 dKH and Ca between 430 and 470ppm. However, my NO3 and PO4 levels were all over the place, even after changing my GAC and GFO every week (they ran in passive media bags in my HOB refugium at the time).

The first half of February, we were on vacation, and so the cyano and dinos continued to build up in the system, but I maintained stable parameters. I should note though that I was using large amounts of BRS 2-part to maintain my levels. I was getting a lot of precipitation on the glass and my sand was beginning to fuse together. When we returned, I cut my 2-part dosage in half and began my first iteration of the Cruz method. I didn't have a sump at this point so I had the Lee's wooden airstones under my powerheads. It wasn't efficient at all, and even though it worked to get bubbles under my cyano mats and bring dino strings to the surface, I had no overflow to export them. Essentially I was just moving them around the tank, and the additives (Reef Grow Algae Oust and Bio Load) had my NO3 up to 50 and my PO4 up to 0.12. So I quit and decided to revisit it once I had the proper setup. I also stopped carbon dosing on Feb 22nd and decided to increase GFO/GAC exchanges.

So I ordered a sump and installed it (the Aqueon model 1) on Feb 28th. Shortly after I got the sump online (Mar 3rd), I started the 3-day blackout combined with heightened pH via kalkwasser, 2ml/10 gallons H2O2, and Dr. Tim's Waste Away. After the blackout, I couldn't find a single dinoflagellate under my microscope for about 5 days, but then they showed up again. After more research I decided to start a copepod/phyto culture in my garage because I read that they will eat dinos. On Mar 15 I removed approximately 75% of my sand bed and replaced it with Caribsea aragonite sand. This virtually eliminated my cyano outbreak, but I was still left with the dinos. I added well over 9,000 copepods to no avail; the dinos continued to reproduce and spread. My next attack entailed implementation of the Zeovit system. My thinking was that if I could achieve true ULNS, perhaps it would leave the dinos without a food source (although I know that they are autotrophic). Zeovit had no effect on the dinos, so that's when I decided to try the full Cruz method, beginning on 26th of March. Since starting it, I have seen a visible reduction in dinos, especially after I put the air pump next to an open window. I will keep it up for another week or two and see how things go. I'm at a stage now where the bubbles only come on at night, so I'm not sure if the reduced period will result in a resurgence of the dinos.

 

[Thales]

Thanks! Your experience with dinos seems to model the problem burning itself out - weather it is from the bubbles, the sand change, it just running its course, or any of the other things you tried is an interesting thing to consider.

 

[Ectogamut]

At this point, I don't care what does it as long as they're gone! Ostreopsis is the worst!

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I still doubt that any of our systems of mixing air and water producing nanobubbles of any significance amount. Neither in the skimmer or with help of wooden airstones. If there is evidences that the bubble scrubbing method works against dinos and cyano , I am convinced that we must look for the explanation along another path.

The day that someone is able to really demonstrate, not only claim, existing nanobubbles in a normal aquarium I will maybe change my mind.

The effect of better degaussing, debris removal and other things can be explained with normal aquatic husbandry - without the “witchcraft” of nanobubbles.

If we should produce nanobubbles for our aquarium – I´m convinced that we must use methods that put us on the eve of destruction in form of bubble disease. I can´t forget a sentence in the japanese paper there they say that if they do not aerate the water containing nanobubbles and a combination of freshwater and saltwater fishes – the fishes will die. IMO – they need to take away excess nitrogen gas through gas exchange.

Sincerely Lasse

Doubts are fine, but doesn't mean it isn't generated.

I can walk you through it in setup and correct method of generation.

Once again, just because its not obviously apparent, try it and use an led flash light or laser pointer and observe it first hand.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I too am very interested in pH tracking before and after. Folks should keep in mind that if the home air used to make the bubbles has elevated CO2 (as home air often does), the pH may drop (or stay steady but low), especially during the day when the tank may run at a CO2 deficit relative to the air used. The same is true for any aeration method used (like a skimmer). That is why some folks using bubbling or skimmers use outside air.

Randy, it has ALWAYS been told in the method to place the aiepump in a fresh air location such as by a window.

It's part of the method.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I hope you notice the " " around the word witchcraft. I do not know if it means something different in English but if you use this " " around a word here in Sweden - it means that you should take the word with a lot of humour

So I hope we have more to say eachother. My true colour? - not even I know

Sincerely Lasse

Yes, your true color... your experience and of course, opinions on what we've been taught correctly and incorrectly.

It is vital to capture tribal knowledge (years of undocumented knowledge that we all have taken for granted or have forgotten) and really establish a few more documented practices in Europe, Australia, America, and Elsewhere...

This really allows all us reefers to see with unprejudiced eyes and minds to see what we may have over looked locally...

Reefing should unite us, not divide us.

 

[Thales]

Yes, your true color... your experience and of course, opinions on what we've been taught correctly and incorrectly.

It is vital to capture tribal knowledge (years of undocumented knowledge that we all have taken for granted or have forgotten) and really establish a few more documented practices in Europe, Australia, America, and Elsewhere...

This really allows all us reefers to see with unprejudiced eyes and minds to see what we may have over looked locally...

Reefing should unite us, not divide us.

I implore you to do your part to stop dividing us as we are after the same thing. Questioning and looking for compelling evidence is not the same as dismissing or entering the conversation with animosity. Please give what we say or ask the most chartable interpretation that you can and realize that if we are prejudiced than you are equally prejudiced to your point of view. We are all after the same thing, so please take questioning as questioning and not some kind of trap or dismissal. I haven't seen anyone in any of these discussions that doesn't want bubbling to do what its proponents say it does. We just want support for the claims because so many idea that have come before with the same kind of support have turned out to be empty.
Thanks for listening.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I implore you to do your part to stop dividing us as we are after the same thing. Questioning and looking for compelling evidence is not the same as dismissing or entering the conversation with animosity. Please give what we say or ask the most chartable interpretation that you can and realize that if we are prejudiced than you are equally prejudiced to your point of view. We are all after the same thing, so please take questioning as questioning and not some kind of trap or dismissal. I haven't seen anyone in any of these discussions that doesn't want bubbling to do what its proponents say it does. We just want support for the claims because so many idea that have come before with the same kind of support have turned out to be empty.
Thanks for listening.

You misunderstand, again I guess.

I said we all reef differently, it's nice to know his stance. It's refreshing to hear how others reef in other countries.

Colors = Pride

I don't see any animosity. Lasse is respected. I'm sure he has knowledge and experience that I'd like to pick his brain about! LoL

 

[Thales]

 

[Greenstreet.1]

Ok so you guys say that I need a laser pointer or flashlight to see the small bubbles correct ?

 

[cb684]

Ok so you guys say that I need a laser pointer or flashlight to see the small bubbles correct ?

I would test this in your tank before bubbling. I wonder if some of the speckles you will see is not detritus particles in the water column.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

I would test this in your tank before bubbling. I wonder if some of the speckles you will see is not detritus particles in the water column.

Funny you say that. Because that's the reason for me asking I will go out later on today and get a pointer and led flashlight I think that's what they said would work

 

[cb684]

As soon I start doing this my plan is to test the ability of produce micro-nano-bubbles in a freshly mixed salt water bucket so hopefully no other particulate. I plan to compare before and after bubbling in the bucket. I think it may work in my DT tank but will be difficult to differentiate from other particles that could either be the bubbles, or detritus that the bubbles dislodged.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

I have not ran any bubbles on any of my tanks yet just trying to see what's going on before I try cause I don't believe that all of the bubbles that are being created by the tank itself gets defused

 

[maroun.c]

My setup has a rather long path for. Return pump to tank (2x1 inch tubes around 30 feet in length each half vertical half horizontal at relative high pressure flow) do you think the added forced contact time will affect bubbles size or have any advantages/disadvantages?
Got a spare Eheim skimmer pump I can throw on a timer in the return partition of the pump just before the input of the return pumps.

 

[cb684]

My setup has a rather long path for. Return pump to tank (2x1 inch tubes around 30 feet in length each half vertical half horizontal at relative high pressure flow) do you think the added forced contact time will affect bubbles size or have any advantages/disadvantages?
Got a spare Eheim skimmer pump I can throw on a timer in the return partition of the pump just before the input of the return pumps.

Yes, I think it might change the bubble size. But IMO we still do not know which size does what. Some of the bubbles should dwell for a while in the water column and stay in the water for at least a few minutes after the pump is off.

 

[reef_ranch]

My setup has a rather long path for. Return pump to tank (2x1 inch tubes around 30 feet in length each half vertical half horizontal at relative high pressure flow) do you think the added forced contact time will affect bubbles size or have any advantages/disadvantages?
Got a spare Eheim skimmer pump I can throw on a timer in the return partition of the pump just before the input of the return pumps.

I have a similar length run. It tired setting the airstone in the sump in front of the intake of my return pun. The bubble size in the DT was very large . I ended up putting the airborne in the DT in front the my CL intake. The bubble size was much smaller with the shorter run. About the size of my skimmer bubbles.