Mid Tank Crash. Help me stop the fall

[mpderksen]

Pictures below tell a pretty scary story. Tank is a mature 150. Things have been slipping for a few weeks, and the last few days have been alarming.
Nitrates are only at 1ppm (my refugium is pretty amazing). Calcium has been lower than expected, @ 375, while Alk had risen to around 12.
The Alk dosing pump is currently off, and I've added probably way too much Calcium to raise the tank back to 420. (I like my Alk at 10).

All the LPS have grown slowly for years, since I keep a low nutrient tank, but now my Ricordia, and all my other softies are fairly retracted. And I've got some serious tissue loss on some of my SPS. The tank has been stable for years, and you can even see that my anemone is completely retracted.
I run Auto Water Change with my Apex, at 6liters/day, but the most recent batch had 0 TDS.

Lighting schedule hasn't changed, but something has been off, since I've lost a few Rics, and started having algae for the first time ever, just in the last few weeks. The only thing I can think of that I've changed is that I got a mini-reactor and started running BRS ROX carbon. That's off line now, but I can't imagine that stripped anything out so dramatically. And yes, I've had the Vermatid Snails since day 1, and they are only throwing out webs because I scraped the glass to take these pictures.

I can do an ICP test, but I'm concerned about how long that will take to get back. What else can I check?

 

[DeniseAndy]

Did your alk spike to 12? What is it usually at? I lost a tone of sps when my Alk spiked in a short time. Really sucked. Infection set in and it was not fun.

Do a few water changes with good water and see how that goes. Good luck!!!!

 

[brandon429]

first bit of advice

rtn and loss events can be distinguished from filter crashes, your overall fish carry ability is fine/as long as disease isn't a factor.


to handle coral bleaching/rtn loss pick one method and run it two months from the offers you are about to get. dont piecemeal seemingly best options, that led to the current challenge. take the remedial approach offered in full, only try a new way in september if not improved.

post a full tank shot, the up closes show euphyllias doing ok, good coralline on the rocks, and common invaders where there isn't much coralline to block them. in any tissue sloughing event, lower your light intensity right off the bat, burn them less until you find issues. lowered light levels never hurt anyones reef, its a fine initial response.

 

[TheDragonsReef]

How quickly did the alk jump from 10-12?

Also it looks like you may be dealing with dinos as well which are toxic to corals. What are your phosphates at?

 

[mpderksen]

I typically do my FTS in the evening, so there isn't an reflection. But this is diagnostic, not artistic, right?

A quick shot of the support hardware: I have a Lifereef skimmer and separate Fuge (both of which have been bulletproof for 4 years). The 2-part pumps are directly above the bottles, screwed to the top. The Fuge light is on at night, reverse cycle, but I turned it on for the photo.

In the garage, I have 1 barrel of new salt water for AWC, and a second for the ATO.

Just did a few more tests:
Ca 449. 2 days ago, it was 374, and I added a full 40 oz of Ca 2-part, all at once. Don't preach. I realize this should have been done MUCH slower. I wasn't thinking. But also, things were already sliding downhill days/weeks before I did that.
Alk. 10.6. Dropping about 0.8/day, since I turned off the pump. Honestly, I rarely test. Sometimes for months. Yes, I'm a bad hobbyist. But with the Apex, things just seem so stable. Until they aren't. How long did it take to creep from 9 to 12? My last reported test in Fusion is January 6th.

My lights are a combo of Ai26 (3 of them) in a mixed fixture with (4) 60' T5s. They are about 18 months old, but my PAR meter doesnt show a drop off yet. However, the LEDs are notoriously not accurately measured with the PAR meter, right?

My plan at this point:
leave the T5s off completely
harvest the cheato
Increase Fuge light from 12 hours to 14
increase auto water change from 6 liters/day to 10 for 1 week
skim a little more aggressively
Let Alk return to 9.0, then resume dosing, but with daily testing
test Ca daily
Order ICP test

 

[mpderksen]

How quickly did the alk jump from 10-12?

Also it looks like you may be dealing with dinos as well which are toxic to corals. What are your phosphates at?

60ppb per HANNA. Thus my intension to increase my Fuge lighting.

 

[uhgster1]

I would hold off on harvesting the chaeto. Troubleshoot to your best ability before you start taking stuff offline. If your parameters are within what you normally keep it at, inventory your livestock, especially if you have large snails. Check if there’s salt creep or if you knocked some off into the tank. Check your pumps for metal exposure, look for metals, I.e. money, rusted screws, etc.. You’re thinking like a new mother, it took a bunch of time to get to where you are, it’s not going to get back to normal overnight. If you start taking everything offline too soon you won’t be able to tell what did the damage.

 

[mpderksen]

I would hold off on harvesting the chaeto. Troubleshoot to your best ability before you start taking stuff offline. If your parameters are within what you normally keep it at, inventory your livestock, especially if you have large snails. Check if there’s salt creep or if you knocked some off into the tank. Check your pumps for metal exposure, look for metals, I.e. money, rusted screws, etc.. You’re thinking like a new mother, it took a bunch of time to get to where you are, it’s not going to get back to normal overnight. If you start taking everything offline too soon you won’t be able to tell what did the damage.

solid points. I was trying to eliminate variables. I do know that the wet side of my MP40s I've had some rust in the past. But yeah, start at 1 end and work through everything more systematically.
I tend to need to pull about a 5 gallon bucket of cheato from the fuge every month. It's one of the only parts of my maintenance that I'm consistent at (and cleaning the glass to keep my wife happy....).
My general approach is to get my parameters back to where I THOUGHT they were. Then, test and make sure they stay there for a while. Lower light is a wise idea, getting the fuge going at full speed will accelerate absorptions of "stuff", while the increase in water change will just flush more away.
I ordered all fresh test kits, as well as an ICP test. Sitting tight until I have confirmation from those.

Side note: if there is rust somewhere, will that show up in the ICP test?

 

[uhgster1]

solid points. I was trying to eliminate variables. I do know that the wet side of my MP40s I've had some rust in the past. But yeah, start at 1 end and work through everything more systematically.
I tend to need to pull about a 5 gallon bucket of cheato from the fuge every month. It's one of the only parts of my maintenance that I'm consistent at (and cleaning the glass to keep my wife happy....).
My general approach is to get my parameters back to where I THOUGHT they were. Then, test and make sure they stay there for a while. Lower light is a wise idea, getting the fuge going at full speed will accelerate absorptions of "stuff", while the increase in water change will just flush more away.
I ordered all fresh test kits, as well as an ICP test. Sitting tight until I have confirmation from those.

Side note: if there is rust somewhere, will that show up in the ICP test?

Not sure, can you add a note to the test for them to look? I know rust is an oxide of iron but I don’t know if it would show up like that or as high iron. The main thing to worry about is copper and any other heavy metals. If you have a good lfs near you they might have those polyfilter pads that absorb metals and let you know which by a color change.

 

[amazongb]

solid points. I was trying to eliminate variables. I do know that the wet side of my MP40s I've had some rust in the past. But yeah, start at 1 end and work through everything more systematically.
I tend to need to pull about a 5 gallon bucket of cheato from the fuge every month. It's one of the only parts of my maintenance that I'm consistent at (and cleaning the glass to keep my wife happy....).
My general approach is to get my parameters back to where I THOUGHT they were. Then, test and make sure they stay there for a while. Lower light is a wise idea, getting the fuge going at full speed will accelerate absorptions of "stuff", while the increase in water change will just flush more away.
I ordered all fresh test kits, as well as an ICP test. Sitting tight until I have confirmation from those.

Side note: if there is rust somewhere, will that show up in the ICP test?

Yes, if there's rust it will show up on the ICP in the unwanted heavy metals section - it will stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[Beau_B]

I agree with dino's being potentially present. Get some of that stringy stuff under a microscope.

 

[mpderksen]

T5s have been off. I now have 2 BTAs instead of 1 (it split from the stress, I guess).
Oddly, my Ca keeps dropping. A lot. Yet Alk isn't really falling, in spite of no longer dosing. Last night I had 387 and 11.0 respectively. Testing daily, and my new kits from BRS should be here soon to confirm before I react. I'm in "watching mode".
I didn't harvest the Cheato, as suggested. But I will try and net up as much of the green mat as possible.

 

[schuby]

If your Magnesium level is low , then Ca will precipitate.

 

[mpderksen]

If your Magnesium level is low , then Ca will precipitate.

I can check that, but highly unlikely. I use RC salt, with a 1%/day AWC. Mg has never been below 1,200 in 4+ years. However, if I KNEW what I was doing, I wouldn't be asking the question, right? Thanks for the idea.

 

[landlubber]

i personally don't like the idea of outright shutting your alkalinity dosing right off as this could certainly cause everything else to go with it. bringing down that high alk would be a process that should take months.

 

[schuby]

I can check that, but highly unlikely. I use RC salt, with a 1%/day AWC. Mg has never been below 1,200 in 4+ years. However, if I KNEW what I was doing, I wouldn't be asking the question, right? Thanks for the idea.

This is the web-page I use as a sounding-board for parameter values: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/o...-reef-aquarium-by-randy-holmes-farley.173563/

 

[Cell]

Always keep a Polyfilter on hand. Amazon delivers them in 2 days.

 

[mpderksen]

i personally don't like the idea of outright shutting your alkalinity dosing right off as this could certainly cause everything else to go with it. bringing down that high alk would be a process that should take months.

Wise words. But even with it off, and testing daily, I'm not really seeing much of a drop. Could the auto-water change be buffering that? The Apex is adding about 70mL of new salt water every 10 minutes. My dosing pump was set to add about 3mL/hour (2:40 @ 1.1mL/min). So far, with the pump off, it has dropped less than a point over 4 days.
My Ca dosing is 3:25min, every hour (on the 30) @ 1.1mL/min. I have NEVER been able to have the same amount of each 2-part, and always just figured this was based on my specific salt. It's also why I never got a Ca Reactor.
step #1 is clearly to EASE the parameters back to where I want them. Step #2 is patiently monitor.

 

[landlubber]

Wise words. But even with it off, and testing daily, I'm not really seeing much of a drop. Could the auto-water change be buffering that? The Apex is adding about 70mL of new salt water every 10 minutes. My dosing pump was set to add about 3mL/hour (2:40 @ 1.1mL/min). So far, with the pump off, it has dropped less than a point over 4 days.
My Ca dosing is 3:25min, every hour (on the 30) @ 1.1mL/min. I have NEVER been able to have the same amount of each 2-part, and always just figured this was based on my specific salt. It's also why I never got a Ca Reactor.
step #1 is clearly to EASE the parameters back to where I want them. Step #2 is patiently monitor.

to me the reason levels aren't dropping is because the event taking place in your tank has arrested calcification in your system. even despite your ion uptake being uneven normally, stopping the dose of a single element causes a shift in the uptake of the others.
aside from all that, i'm really hopeful for you as i've been where you are right now and its an ugly feeling. fingers crossed it passes and some of your inhabitants persist.

 

[mpderksen]

things are back to growing again. The SPS that survived (most of them, actually) have colored up again. Parameters are back in line, SLOWLY. ICP test never revealed anything concerning. Now I just sit back and wait for things to regrow over the dead parts.