Mid to high NITRATE / Low to zero PHOSPHATE BENEFITS?!

[hexcolor reef]

phosphates help growth in coral but also brings algae and lose of coral color. How important is phosphate in saltwater aquarium? I rather have mid nitrates levels 15-20 ppm maybe push 40ppm before 10% water change all while keeping phosphate levels low. Calcium will be readily available and more absorbed by coral with low phosphate levels which should be a major plus. What’s the risk here?
tank with Acropor, SPS, LPS and softies

 

[SPR1968]

That’s basically what I’ve always done, very low phosphate (ideally nearly undetectable) and nitrate 10-40. No problems whatsoever and very rapid coral growth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

phosphates help growth in coral but also brings algae and lose of coral color.

That's not a clearly correct statement. This tank had 1+ ppm phosphate when the photo was taken:

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

Rich’s 150 gallon display, on a 300 gallon system, is running a phosphate level of 1.24 ppm, a level at 24.8 times higher than the often recommended .05 ppm. Photo by Richard Ross.

 

[laezur]

I've accidentally hit this recently and seen a cyano bloom - can't say for sure it's related to low phosphates and high nitrates but this bloom happened as actively began lowering my phosphates and testing my nitrates at about 35ppm

 

[hexcolor reef]

I've accidentally hit this recently and seen a cyano bloom - can't say for sure it's related to low phosphates and high nitrates but this bloom happened as actively began lowering my phosphates and testing my nitrates at about 35ppm

I thought cyano bloom comes from lack of flow in tank and possibly low beneficial bacteria?!!!
I have it in my frag tank currently and just up the flow. Other than that “chemi” will rid of that issue quickly. Which I plan on ordering

 

[hexcolor reef]

That's not a clearly correct statement. This tank had 1+ ppm phosphate when the photo was taken:

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

Rich’s 150 gallon display, on a 300 gallon system, is running a phosphate level of 1.24 ppm, a level at 24.8 times higher than the often recommended .05 ppm. Photo by Richard Ross.

It’s a fully stocked tank which could handle and absorb extra / higher phosphate levels, tons of encrusting and Acro’s. Nutrient hungry coral.
higher nitrates levels also allow for coral to handle extra phosphate being absorbed. So I’m going to assume the nitrates are higher in this tank.
I’m looking to do this in a not so heavy stocked tank. More negative space.
tight now I’m running a lot of “PhosGuard” more than recommended to keep levels low while still heavy feeding my tank.

 

[laezur]

I thought cyano bloom comes from lack of flow in tank and possibly low beneficial bacteria?!!!
I have it in my frag tank currently and just up the flow. Other than that “chemi” will rid of that issue quickly. Which I plan on ordering

Well yes and no I believe. Cyano can't really settle in high flow areas but it's still in the tank. From my understanding even really established tanks can sometimes experience cyano and it can be from a range of things. I just noticed it pop up when my pho's pretty much bottomed out. It is a bacteria so yes it can be outcompeted by beneficial bacteria, but my tank is 2 years old so it should definitely have some of that around haha.

I try to let things rebalance themselves. I've removed my GFO and it's slowly reducing the cyano as the nutrients level out so that's my theory anyway. I'd always rather try and fix it naturally over chemicals

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It’s a fully stocked tank which could handle and absorb extra / higher phosphate levels, tons of encrusting and Acro’s. Nutrient hungry coral.
higher nitrates levels also allow for coral to handle extra phosphate being absorbed. So I’m going to assume the nitrates are higher in this tank.
I’m looking to do this in a not so heavy stocked tank. More negative space.
tight now I’m running a lot of “PhosGuard” more than recommended to keep levels low while still heavy feeding my tank.

Nitrate was certainly higher too. Higher than your target, IIRC.

That said, I was addressing the comment on coral color and elevated phosphate, which is presumably unrelated to the number of corals.

FWIW, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that trying to deal with algae issues or potential issues by keeping N and P low is a losing battle, since corals can become starved before many pests, unless you actively feed specific coral foods to them somehow.

 

[hexcolor reef]

I’ll check my phosphate levels in my frag tank. Im running phosphate remover in my main tanks. No cyano in main tanks but it’s present in frag tank. Im going to run a healthy experiment in my frag tank

 

[hexcolor reef]

Nitrate was certainly higher too. Higher than your target, IIRC.

That said, I was addressing the comment on coral color and elevated phosphate, which is presumably unrelated to the number of corals.

FWIW, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that trying to deal with algae issues or potential issues by keeping N and P low is a losing battle, since corals can become starved before many pests, unless you actively feed specific coral foods to them somehow.

I’ll read the more into the link of the tank you posted. Would like to know all details on the tank, if the person is dosing or not. Because i started dosing my tanks with Red Sea trace ABCD since phosphates has been higher. Calcium is being used up in my tank pretty quickly so I’m more being cautious of phosphate levels

 

[doubleshot00]

I thought cyano bloom comes from lack of flow in tank and possibly low beneficial bacteria?!!!
I have it in my frag tank currently and just up the flow. Other than that “chemi” will rid of that issue quickly. Which I plan on ordering

NOPE. Wait till it grows on your sand bed. My tank is a pretty good washing machine and i got cyano only on my sand bed. Ill take it on the rocks (just blow it off) but when its on the sand its a different story.

I used Dr tims waste away to knock mine back and manual removal. My nitrates are 25+ and phos is .1+. At the time of the outbreak my phos were .2+ but i was also feeding a lot.

 

[hexcolor reef]

NOPE. Wait till it grows on your sand bed. My tank is a pretty good washing machine and i got cyano only on my sand bed. Ill take it on the rocks (just blow it off) but when its on the sand its a different story.

I used Dr tims waste away to knock mine back and manual removal. My nitrates are 25+ and phos is .1+. At the time of the outbreak my phos were .2+ but i was also feeding a lot.

I’ve seen a lot of YouTubers vids dealing with this kind of issue. I’m not using any substrate. Kinda thought ahead when setting up this particular tank. I started to look for a good all white gravel to use but everything I came across is painted or fake gravel. I’m so far liking the no substrate look. Easy clean up of the tank as well.

 

[doubleshot00]

I’ve seen a lot of YouTubers vids dealing with this kind of issue. I’m not using any substrate. Kinda thought ahead when setting up this particular tank. I started to look for a good all white gravel to use but everything I came across is painted or fake gravel. I’m so far liking the no substrate look. Easy clean up of the tank as well.

Im now taking out sand. Slowly though.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’ll read the more into the link of the tank you posted. Would like to know all details on the tank, if the person is dosing or not. Because i started dosing my tanks with Red Sea trace ABCD since phosphates has been higher. Calcium is being used up in my tank pretty quickly so I’m more being cautious of phosphate levels

Richard Ross (Thales at R2R) is an expert reefer, both in private and at public aquariums.

He has a thread on that tank here:

Rich Ross - Home Tank - guess the phosphate

This tank was built before r2r, here is a link to some links about the build. http://packedhead.net/home-reef/ Current test results: 03-17-2017 Ammonia (NH3-4) Good 0 0.000 - 0.050 mg/L 03-17-2017 Nitrite (NO2) Good 0.006 0.000 - 0.100 mg/L 03-17-2017 Phosphate...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[WrasseyReefer]

phosphates help growth in coral but also brings algae and lose of coral color. How important is phosphate in saltwater aquarium? I rather have mid nitrates levels 15-20 ppm maybe push 40ppm before 10% water change all while keeping phosphate levels low. Calcium will be readily available and more absorbed by coral with low phosphate levels which should be a major plus. What’s the risk here?
tank with Acropor, SPS, LPS and softies

Limited phosphorus availability is the Achilles heel of tropical reef corals in a warming ocean - Scientific Reports

During the 20th century, seawater temperatures have significantly increased, leading to profound alterations in biogeochemical cycles and ecosystem processes. Elevated temperatures have also caused massive bleaching (symbiont/pigment loss) of autotrophic symbioses, such as in...

www.nature.com

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates - PMC

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with dinoflagellates (Symbiodinium sp.). We argue, however, that the direct negative effects on the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Mppp]

That’s basically what I’ve always done, very low phosphate (ideally nearly undetectable) and nitrate 10-40. No problems whatsoever and very rapid coral growth.

This is quite interesting and believe this is why my corals never looked better as I just returned from a week's vacation. Before leaving I tested w/ a Hanna both Nitrates (20.2ppm) and Phosphates (.08ppm). I decided to put in a small amount of phosguard in a mesh bag and I mean small amount as this stuff is wicked strong to bring down the phosphates a bit while I was out of town. When I returned my Nitrates are 22.5 and Phoshates (.05ppm). I've read and watched recent BRS videos about WWC levels that "some" consensus may be changing on having to have Nitrate levels below 10ppm and perhaps closer to 20ppm as long as phosphates remain below .10ppm. To each their own of course and I currently have a mixed reef mostly LPS tank. Or maybe just keeping my hands out of tank for a week helped who knows