Might be a Sign to Quit

[BigHildy53]

It might be time to call it quits. Added several fish last weekend. Come home Thursday night and most of them are dead. Four tangs and a tiger damselfish. Went from swimming well to dead. So depressed! Ammonia and Nitrite tested fine. The magnificent foxface who was in confinement is fine; no reason to keep him there. And two exquisite fairy wrasses are fine. Tested everything this evening (Friday evening) and the only parameter out of alignment is alkalinity. It's at 5.5 using the Hanna checker; tested it twice. Did I basically suffocate those poor fish? I'm using BRS soda ash to raise the alkalinity. Why didn't the other fish die also?

Ammonia - .05
Nitrite - .031
Nitrate - 4.5
Phosphate between .12 and .19 (hanna and hach tests)
Calcium 401
Salinity 1.024
Alkalinity 5.5

 

[1MCp]

First off, I feel for you and condolences to your fish. Secondly did you notice anything between the time of entry and death? Ie fights between fish, feeding habits changing, swimming a bit funky, physical trauma (fin dmg, scale dmg, etc)? Some fish are more tolerant to water impurities, my clownfish are warriors when I had my first crash, every coral and fish died except my clownfish. Give us some details on the state of the fish when you found them dead to help identify the root of the problem.

 

[Preme]

Hmmmmm
Well there's nothing out of the ordinary with your levels so I couldn't see an issue with that.
I'd assume your running a skimmer so you couldn't have suffocated the fish.
Maybe #reefsquad can help with this one

 

[1MCp]

Also adding several livestock at the same time it might be stressful for them, and not all problems surface right away they can lay dormant for days, weeks or even months before tilting to a crash.

 

[BigHildy53]

Yes I am running an external skimmer; and have a sump. Here are some pictures. I put several sheets of nori in the tank, some on clips and some tied to rocks. I soaked them in selcon ahead of time. The only trouble I saw was my foxface chasing a flame fin tang; that's why he was in confinement.

 

[melypr1985]

It might be time to call it quits. Added several fish last weekend. Come home Thursday night and most of them are dead. Four tangs and a tiger damselfish. Went from swimming well to dead. So depressed! Ammonia and Nitrite tested fine. The magnificent foxface who was in confinement is fine; no reason to keep him there. And two exquisite fairy wrasses are fine. Tested everything this evening (Friday evening) and the only parameter out of alignment is alkalinity. It's at 5.5 using the Hanna checker; tested it twice. Did I basically suffocate those poor fish? I'm using BRS soda ash to raise the alkalinity. Why didn't the other fish die also?

Ammonia - .05
Nitrite - .031
Nitrate - 4.5
Phosphate between .12 and .19 (hanna and hach tests)
Calcium 401
Salinity 1.024
Alkalinity 5.5

Can I ask what size tank this is and how long it's been set up?

 

[BigHildy53]

It's a 180g DT with a 39g sump and RO 250ext skimmer. It's been up 7 months.

 

[melypr1985]

It's a 180g DT with a 39g sump and RO 250ext skimmer. It's been up 7 months.

Even a tank that large will suffer some when you add 4 tangs at once. Some of those pictures show what looks like bacterial infections and another tang looks to have damage and redness on the gills. It could simply be that.... a gram negative bacteria that kills very quickly.... though putting in that many fish at once in a tank that is still pretty young can cause issues beyond that. Going off of these pictures though it's hard to make a diagnosis based on them alone... death does weird things to fish and one looks like a couple crabs got to him first. I wish I could be of more help to you. I just want to say: Going slow when doing anything in this hobby is always the best practice.

 

[Maritimer]

I find myself wondering about pH - do you know what yours is?

I'm so sorry for the loss of these fish - they were all beautiful, and looked to have good body weight, at least.

Tangs are a challenge ... so many sources say "add last, and all at once" - but that's often a difficult burden from a water-chemistry standpoint!

~Bruce

 

[Griff]

I'm curious about ph as well. I also agree about bacteria infection. What it was your quarentine process? Where did you buy the fish? Online or lfs or petco? Did this happen after you tried to raise alkalinity? If so what was your process for adding the soda ash? Can you take pics of the fish that made it through this so we can look for clues there?

 

[ws6kid]

Where did you get the fish? Lots of stores run a 1.020 in fish only systems. If you put them into a reef environment at 1.026 and didn't acclimate them over several hours, it can be a pretty big shock and cause the fish to be weak and susceptible to infection and such. Just a thought. I lost a lot of fish before I started matching my QT to the salinity reading in the bag.

 

[Zack K]

What was your temp at the time you noticed your tangs were dead? A buddy of mine had this same problem and all his parameters were perfect BUT his heater quit working at around 12:00pm and the tank temp fell to 68 then it heated the tank to 89.

 

[1MCp]

I would suggest in the future adding one or two livestock at once, also to make sure quarantine them. Even with LFS I trust, I would quarantine them to make sure. Even with corals I would dip them.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Ammonia - .05
Nitrite - .031
Nitrate - 4.5
Phosphate between .12 and .19 (hanna and hach tests)
Calcium 401
Salinity 1.024
Alkalinity 5.5

Ammonia is high.
alk and cal are out of balance, I would suspect PH probs as well. Ph=c02.&02 in the water.

 

[BigHildy53]

The PH and temperature readings from Apex are below. The PH has fluctuated. I purchased the fish last weekend from two local fish stores. I used a drip acclimation. I don't have a QT process. My intent was to upgrade my 75G freshwater to 150G and use the 75G tank as a QT. Add dividers to have three sections to move the fish through.

The alkalinity was 5.5 when the fish died.

 

[glb]

Ammonia is high.
alk and cal are out of balance, I would suspect PH probs as well. Ph=c02.&02 in the water.

I'm so sorry about your fish. After 7 months, your tank should be fully cycled so there shouldn't have any ammonia or nitrite at all. Was the spike before or after they died? Also, your phosphate is high. It should be between 0.02-0.04ppm. Was the level you listed at the time you added the fish or after? The alk being low could have allowed the ph to drop. And it's possible the salinity between your tank and the store tank was too different. As far as infections, etc, I'll let the others chime in as that is not my area of expertise. Hang in there, and good luck!!

 

[ebushrow]

I actually think adding that large of a Bioload to the tank would have definitely caused a minicycle and that my have stressed things out allowing a bacterial infection to take them out quickly....just my 0.02

The fact that the alk and ph are off, might have exasserbated the issue.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

there's not enough oxygen in the water.

 

[sithrico]

I actually think adding that large of a Bioload to the tank would have definitely caused a minicycle and that my have stressed things out allowing a bacterial infection to take them out quickly....just my 0.02

The fact that the alk and ph are off, might have exasserbated the issue.

I'm with you on that. Being so young of a tank could have a low nitrifying bacteria number. 1 or two fish at the most in a new setup at one time. When I add new fish (it may be over doing things), I check SG of the bag water. Test all parameters of my water then determine the acclamation process I need to do. That way if some thing dies I can test why. Too bad for you, don't lose fate. If you think about what we are doing is just a big science project for grown ups. We live and learn. Good luck.

 

[BigHildy53]

there's not enough oxygen in the water.

Not questioning this, but what do you base it off off.

I'm so sorry about your fish. After 7 months, your tank should be fully cycled so there shouldn't have any ammonia or nitrite at all. Was the spike before or after they died? Also, your phosphate is high. It should be between 0.02-0.04ppm. Was the level you listed at the time you added the fish or after? The alk being low could have allowed the ph to drop. And it's possible the salinity between your tank and the store tank was too different. As far as infections, etc, I'll let the others chime in as that is not my area of expertise. Hang in there, and good luck!!

The numbers were from after the fish died. I know my phosphates are high. I've had a problem lowering them.

The other thing I did within the past month was to add natural live rock to the system. One of the vendors who farms rocks from the ocean. I'm not mentioning the vendor because I don't want it to appear as if I'm blaming them. Is it possible that this rock introduced a bacteria not suitable for a closed system?