Mike's 45 Gallon Zoa Garden (Max E 170)

[HolisticBear]

Alk is potentially higher because consumption has decreased. Sign of coral unhappiness.

Hopefully people in the other thread will identify. Because if it's Dino's, they love trace elements and water changes (adds more trace).

You didn't list PO4, but having NO3 + PO4 at zero tend to be the ideal conditions for dinos

 

[ArowanaLover1902]

I've been following and that sucks, I'd suggest slowing down a bit though, you're moving pretty fast.
1. Maybe, not sure, could be other elements too
2. It's not too much flow, that doesn't cause algae, it usually helps get rid of it
3. Very likely, almost 100%, but it's nothing that wasn't already there, usually those bad things are always there just waiting for the chance to start up, you can never really kill them 100% either
4. Yeah but alkalinity moves around a lot, its not causing the problem but whatever is may be causing alk swings, plus corals won't be using up much calcium at the moment either
5. I'd suggest keeping it on only when the tank lights are off
6. Not likely again, most of your corals are zoas and corals fight with their neighbors, not the entire tank

I'd suggest
1. Too much food, cut coral feeding down to once a week or less
2. Replace your filter media
3. Lights off for 2 days (fuge lights excepted, let the chaeto outcompete everything else)

Algae is unavoidable, my tank is going through something similar right now (just algae problems though, corals are fine)

 

[tablesalt]

Cyano Update: Day 2


Thank you everyone for your advice. I did a 5 gallon water change yesterday and a 5 gallon water change today using an airline hose to spot pull the cyano. After yesterday’s water change, my toadstool leather puffed back up and about ¼ of the Zoanthids popped open. I did the same thing today and we will see how things are doing in the morning.


I am using a Red Sea test kit, checked 3 times, and bought some of the junky test strips just to check and came up with the same 0/0/0 Ammonia/Nitrate/Nitrites. My Fuge grows Chaeto like crazy, so I think that is where the nutrients had been going. I have the lights on 24/7 but am debating changing the lighting schedule so they are just on at night. I havn’t had any nuisance algae (other than the Cyano) in the DT since the first few weeks of setup.


As a process of troubleshooting I pulled and cleaned my sponges. I’m pretty sure that the sponges were full of pure toilet water as they were disgusting and were likely a contributing factor to my issues. I also changed the carbon.


I ordered some “Cuprisorb” on the groups advice just in case which I’ll drop in later this week.


All in all the fish seem happy but the corals are obviously irritated where the Cyano hits the tank. I am going to wait another day or two before performing another water change/cyano-vac, and next time I do it I am going to leave the DT lights off for 2 Days.


I have some chemiclean but would prefer to treat the cause not the symptoms and will only treat once the problem is pretty much gone.


As to why I treated Strontium//Molydendum, I was going off of 15 year old rule of thumb from when I worked in an aquarium store. Which was once you have 2+ leathers you dose for it weekly. The new adage is not to dose anything you can’t test for, although I am going to keep dosing iodine.


I don’t have a phosphate test. Do I really need to be testing for this//would it cause Cyano?


Thank you all for your advice and I will keep you posted on progress. Any and all tips are greatly appreciated.

 

[ArowanaLover1902]

What brand of carbon are you using, that can make a bigger difference than you think. Phosphate can feed cyano, definitly test it, or it could that its eating your nutrients (meaning everything tests for zero only because its all in the cyano [this is good, that means once you get it out it won't just spring back as long as you have dealt with the problem]) or it could just be fine in low nutrient water. On dosing, I personally have about 20+ zoas (a good few are colonies, not frags), 9 sps, 1 frogspawn, 2 leathers (1 huge one, about the size of my fist), 1 duncan coral, and a lot of mushrooms too, I never dose and even my SPS are happy. Just stick with those weekly water changes and make sure to keep your alkalinity up, I'd recommend at least stopping your dosing for about 2 months until this stuff clears up. The cyano isn't causing the coral irration, something else is and that's likely what is causing your cyano too. Also try getting some tests at various times during the day, just to see if you are having swings that are causing the unhappiness in your tank.

 

[tablesalt]

It's time for the zoanthid census of the month, but the tank is in a time of crises and as such I cannot count the heads.

As you can see from the earlier pictures... the tank is having an outbreak of what I originally thought was Cyano-Bacteria. However, I now believe I am dealing with some sort of Dinoflagellates. I have done some target waterchanges where I vacuumed the brown stuff out a few days in a row, I have changed water, I have put my fuge on a timer, I have changed carbon, I have thoroughly cleaned the sponges, and I have started feeding dry food in addition to the frozen food.

The advice I have received has varied between "you have too much nutrients and have cyano" to, "you don't have enough nutrients and have Dinos". I am starting to go down the Dinoflagellate route. Most of my polyps have started to open back up, and as such I am going to stay the course for now.

In other news I get to speak at an international event next week and as such am having the wife look after the tank. It's going to be just an autofeeder, frozen food, and my ATO for the next week. Hopefully a week of me not trying to fix it will bring the tank up to normal.

Here is a pic of the back of the tank where I had been letting a patch grow (since removed) for identification purposes...

Happy reefing!

 

[tablesalt]

Great news guys! The tank has fully recovered. I went out of town for a few weeks leaving the wife in charge and she magically fixed everything. Only changes were additional feedings (pellet in morning, frozen in evening) and the light on the fuge is going out. Between the two the extra nutrients in the tank let things bounce back, leading me to believe it was Dinos, not Cyano causing the issue. The McCorskers flasher Wrasses didn't make it, but everything else is good. Against everyone's advice I have replaced the pair with a 6 Line Wrasse that seems to be doing quite well.

The ZOAs are in full reproduction mode and with the exception of the "Giant Cinnamon Paly) I think all are reproducing. I am looking forward to a polyp count at the end of the month. Nothing has grown off the plug aside from invasive island (bottom left) but we are getting close. The leathers are also blowing up and will eventually have to go (I'll keep them until they are too big then trade them in).

All in all I'm really enjoying the tank again, the glass is impossible to keep clean (from little kid fingerprints), the tank magically doesn't grow algae (just a daily scraping of the glass is needed) and I'm loving the hobby. Thanks guys!

 

[tablesalt]

The tank is back at 100% after the Dino nightmare. Numbers are below. My favorite Zoas are still the Blue Hornets, which have now almost tripled in size. There are a few Zoas I can't tell apart so some of the numbers jump up and down a bit, but all in all only one fatality for a Zoanthid so far, and most of the rest are doing great. I am really digging the Leather corals, but they are growing fast and will have to be downsized to the LFS sooner or later. The Ghost Palys are the fastest growers right now, and I am glad I have them on their island of isolation. I am really digging the 6 line wrasse I have right now and he is tied with my tailspot blenny as most fun to watch. I had to replace the fuge light and put a timer on it to keep from out competing the display tank. Everything is happy and healthy and the only people having more fun watching the tank than me are my children.

 

[tablesalt]

Been a long time since I posted so here is the update... Complete with latest ZOA count! Pretty much everything is taking off. The Leather Corals I put in there are going to have to go soon... Latest additions are a second Emerald Crab (for the hair algae), Red Formosa star fish, one mystery ZOA from the 15$ bin, and 2 small Ricordea frags.

On the fish front, I think my Tailspot Blenny and Six Line Wrasse are my favorites, definitely the most fun to watch. My Dottyback comes in as a close second and the Clowns are distant thirds. They are defiantly showing some sexual dimorphism now and I think they will likely spawn as a pair in the next year or so.

I have been having some troubles keeping the tank at 80 degrees, but installed a clip on fan that has been working magic every time I turn it on. I realize evaporation may be an issue, but I can just refill the ATO and this is a much cheaper option than a real chiller.

I am glad I put the fast spreaders on an island. I have slowed way down on stocking as I am running out of room for more coral. I will be trading in the leathers in the next month or so, and am going to wait until my "invasive island" is full up before trading that rock in. All in all I really feel like everything is starting to take off now. The LED lights and ATO make keeping a reef tank SO much easier than it was just 15 years ago last time I was into it. The kids really like it now so now I have even more of an excuse to have fun with it. I will be content with this tank for the foreseeable future, and will be spreading my wings to incorporate a new nerdy and expensive hobby soon... looking at getting my first pinball machine soon. Good thing I'm already married! At least I can claim I have fish and (soon) a pinball machine for the kids right... right?

 

[tablesalt]

Time for another end of the month update. This has been a hard month for the tank, but everything is doing fine now. All livestock is good, but I had a huge dino/cyano (TBD) problem this month that just about drove me insane. What I have figured out is that any time a put a dose of anything into my tank that comes in a bottle and is supposed to help corals grow, I have problems for a long time. I was troubleshooting and was convinced it was my RO water, but TDS are less than 1 PPM so that's not the problem. All my zoanthids are growing. There are too many to reasonably count now. My "invasive island" rock is almost completely full now. My tree leather coral seems to have dropped a branch that is now attached in the bottom back right portion of my tank. I bought a couple of "cheap" ricordea but they seem to have vanished (or fallen into the rock work) within about a week.

Since I had the dino/cyano outbreak, and it retreated I have been dealing with some sort of bushy hair algae that is slowly going away. I am going to keep doing my bi-weekly water changes and partial removal of MACRO in the sump to try and slow growth. I have also thrown in a small red starfish and a small sea urchin. I've never kept either of these before and they are awesome little critters. Always on the move and in the month I've had them I have taken a real liking to them. All the fish are still there and happy. The six line wrasse is still my favorite, and the tail spot blenny is a hoot.

I probably need to adjust my protein skimmer as it is getting really loud and doesn't seem to actually be skimming much crud. I am a light feeder but there should be something in there. I'm thinking of putting it on a timer so it only comes on line at night with the fuge. Anyone have any experience with this?

All in all, after being discouraged after a couple of cyano/dino outbreaks, I think I have identified the behavior that has been causing the problem (additives) and can go back to enjoying the hobby.

 

[tablesalt]

It's been over a month since I posted an update and their is a big reason. I goofed hard. I turned off my protein skimmer and forgot to turn it back on for about a month. I was going nuts trying to figure out why the algae was so bad. After I got the skimmer up and working again there was a lot of manual removal to get things under control, but I think we are good now.

I have not put any new corals in the tank for a while and I don't think I'm going to. It's been 9 months since I stocked coral and things are doing really well. I think I'm going to just let the ZOAs grow out for a while. Invasive island (in the bottom left of photo) is pretty much full up. It has SBC blue ghost Palys (strongest grower in the tank), yellow button polyps, green button polyps, and nuclear green palys. I don't know If I should try and trade them in, spread plugs near them, or just let them be. I am glad I put them on their own Island.

My strongest growers off the island are my purple hornets (my favorite) and the orange ones near top center. You can really see a lot of growth when you go back through the old photos. It is also interesting to see just how much those leathers have grown.

I am really digging the sea urchins. I have a small blue tuxedo urchin, and "blades" which you can see on the glass.

At this point in time maintenance is pretty minimal. Empty the skimmer when it starts to stink, 5 gallons of new salt every other week, refill the 5 gallon ATO every week, pull out some chaeto from the fuge once in a while and keep the glass clean. I am determined to keep things stable for a while.

Happy reefing!

 

[tablesalt]

Well, I did something really stupid, but I also got the coolest coral I've seen in person that I have a decent chance of keeping healthy. I found an ORANGE BRANCHING HAMMER CORAL. I've never seen one in person, and had to snatch it up when I found it. This is by far the nicest coral I've ever known and fits in well with my dream of having a display tank where I could conceivably frag enough goodies to pay for salt/hermits/snails in the future. I had to re-arrange the tank to make room for it. The barnacle in the front is gone and has been replaced by the two hammers you see in the photo. I also broke the rock you saw (isolation island) and moved it into 2 corners of the tank with some "frag" rocks underneath. It seems to be much easier to trade small rocks for store credit than large, so hopefully they will continue to grow like nuts. They had already pretty much filled up the original rock. I split up my larger Zoanthid Colonies removing the original plugs for several and moving them across the tank in hopes that I'd have Zoanthid colonies mixing in different colors in different places.


This was all well and good but I took it a step too far and did something stupid. I decided to go ahead and take a cutting off of my leather and glue it to another rock in hopes it would take and I could trade it too. Alas, I cut the leather coral in the tank... Don't do this. The next morning, EVERYTHING in the tank was closed, blades (the cool sea urchin you see on the glass in the previous post) was on the ground all spines gone, and my red starfish was melting from it's tips. I did a few emergency water changes and have been doing 5 gallons every other day and changing carbon ever since. Things are looking healthy again after a few days (see pic below) but I did lose two of my favorites (Blades and my red starfish).

I still can't get my protein skimmer working and am debating breaking it to get it out and replacing it with a new smaller one. TBD

In any case, still really enjoying the hobby.

 

[mOnsterzOas26]

Hi did you get a new skimmer ? I just set up a tank like this one but the skimmer it’s so loud

 

[tablesalt]

Hi did you get a new skimmer ? I just set up a tank like this one but the skimmer it’s so loud

My skimmer has been broken for several months now. I have been getting by on bi-weekly 5 gallon water changes, although since adding some LPS I will likely do 5 gallon per week water changes. I actually emailed BRS about a replacement and I got 2 replies from there team.

They were,

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It looks like the tank is going well, I would recommend just continuing to do regular water changes and replace the carbon as well when you do that. If you think there is a toxin in the tank I would do a large (75-100%) water change and replace the carbon. I also like to use poly filter which can be found at a lot of local stores and is known to pull out a lot of toxins from tanks. I would also siphon out as much of the algae as possible. If you have any more questions please let me know!

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Thanks for reaching out to us! Unfortunately, we don't really have any skimmer that will work well in this tank other than the stock skimmer. I would actually recommend relying on small water changes as a primary nutrient export method as they're not too tedious with a tank of this size. If you have any other questions at all, please let us know, and I'd be happy to help. Have a great day!

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The only things that died after my "fragging in the tank" incident were the starfish and the sea urchin. Here is the tank now at 10 months old.

Happy to help and let me know if you have any other questions!

 

[mOnsterzOas26]

Thanks for the replay, my skimmer works fine it’s pulling nasty stuff already it’s just the noise from the air intake that bothers me , your tank it’s looking good.

 

[tablesalt]

Almost a year in and everything is doing great! After a few water changes the tank is back to normal after my fragging incident. I haven't added any stock to the tank in the past month, and I think it's pretty much full. I'm on the lookout for a new starfish and some new hermits but that's it. Loving the tank!

I have been running skimmerless for 6 months now with no real issues. I do have some hair algae, but it seems easy to pull off and 5 minutes once a week of manual removal seems to keep the problem under control.

 

[tablesalt]

Been a while since I posted an update but things have been going mostly well. I figured out my temperature controller was on the fritz, and my tank went down to the lower 70s for about a month before I figured it out, but I've slowly raised the tank up to about 76 and everything is doing well again. My "isolation island" rocks are completely covered with fast growers, and much of my rock is now covered in coral. Everything seems happy in the tank, and the only recurring issue I am having at the moment is hair algae. I do about 10 minutes of manual removal every other week, and that seems to be enough to keep things in check. I have switched from a 5 gallon change every week to 10 gallons every other week and the tank seems to be a bit happier. Anyways, here is the latest progress pick after being set up for a bit over a year.

 

[tablesalt]

So, I had been at my wits end with algae over the past 4 months and finally just gave up on my tank. For the past month I have done nothing but feed and add water to the top off and my fish tank is healthier than ever? My corals are growing faster, my fish look happier and are swimming more, the nuisance algae has mostly gone away. I have come to the conclusion that I was killing my tank with kindness and doing too many water changes. This is a MAX-E 170 with about 40 gallons of water in it and no active skimmer.I had been doing a 10 gallon water change every other week. I have come to the conclusion that my tank is doing much better with less water changes. I tested my RO I'm making salt with and am getting 0 TDS so I don't understand what my issue may be.

Everything is growing like crazy. My "invasive islands" in the foreground are all completely covered and I am reserving the space on the big rock for more desirable species. My prized orange hammer coral looks like it is splitting from 2 to 3 heads.

 

[tablesalt]

It's been a few months since the last updated. The "Isolation island" rocks out front are full now. You don't really notice how much things have grown until you start comparing pictures. I had to replace the lights but most everything (even the algae) is thriving.

Despite how the tank looks, I seem to be spending more time cleaning than enjoying the tank at this point in time and will likely be switching back over to freshwater shrimp at the end of the year.

 

[tablesalt]

Aquarium hair algae almost gone after turning down the lights a bit and slowing down on the water changes. Running out of room on "isolation island" and having to try hard to keep those off the bigger rocks.

 

[tablesalt]

After 2 years the Aquarium is thriving. I had to sell the finger leathers and playys to keep them from taking over the tank. All I do now is feed pellets daily, top off fresh water, wipe down glass weekly, and change 5 gallons a month. Glad I waited it out and loving the tank.