Mindstream in the house!

[Squidmotron]

So this one does a better job of explaining. And this was my argument for not measuring alkalinity when I ran freshwater. My understanding of alkalinity was that it was the pOH (percent hydroxide), which is the opposite of pH (percent hydronium). If you knew ph, you indirectly know alkalinity. And if all your alkalinity comes only From hydroxide ions, that’s true. But we necessarily have a high concentration of carbonated and bicarbonate in our water, which directly impacts alkalinity. At pH’s below 4.2, there is no hydroxide present, meaning all alkalinity or buffering capacity of the water, comes from carbonates and bicarbonates. If you’re ph is that low, there’s an issue. We want to keep our tanks much closer to a neutral ph, which means nearly equal hydronium and hydroxide ions. Even at the more desired 8.1-8.3 range, the difference in hydronium and hydroxide ions are near negligible. To repeat, if all your alkalinity came from hydroxide, there really is no reason to measure alk, if you know ph, but that’s not the case. Still, the hydroxide ion concentration gives us very little information about the buffering ability of water at our desired levels Of ph. The carbonate and bicarbonate concentrations are what will truly affect the buffering ability of the water.

Hydroxide plays very little role in telling us much about the buffering ability of water until Ph’s Start pushing beyond 8.4, which again, is not desired in our tanks. So, by taking out an extraneous value (hydroxide) we can get a much more precise and (more importantly) controllable value of alkalinity. When you want to increase alkalinity, you add Carbonate, not hydroxide ions. Corals are also uptaking carbonates, not hydroxide ions. So carbonates are really the thing shifting into the alkalinity equation.

Now here’s where I’m not certain if im coming to the correct conclusion. Because total alkalinity includes hydroxide ions, I would anticipate the buffering capacity to be greater with hydroxide ions present. In order to account for that, I’d imagine the buffering curve for only measuring alkalinity would be at an inflection point around ph of 7. Meaning,

I saw that as well. Not very helpful for us. Mindstream posted a response in a thread on the forum somewhere asking about the differences (don’t know how to link to it). I’m thinking that conversion will not be possible and I’ll just have to be content now tracking both total Alk and carbonate Alk. (No, I’m not getting rid of my Alkatronic anytime soon!)

If you can simply calculate it from pH and total Alk it should be very easy to add this field to the application.

 

[Squidmotron]

Sorry for the excessive quoting. An accident. I’m new here.

 

[GoVols]

That devices takes samples of water and adds reagents and then looks at the color. Like a person testing their water w a sample. It’s a different kind of a device.

"There’s been a rush on companies trying out ion-specific testing probes and we don’t know what technology the Mastertronic will employ, we do know the elements that Focustronic really wants to incorporate into this machine. "

 

[Squidmotron]

"There’s been a rush on companies trying out ion-specific testing probes and we don’t know what technology the Mastertronic will employ, we do know the elements that Focustronic really wants to incorporate into this machine. "

Right but the current one does (alkatronic) and like I was saying I don’t think it’s possible without this method.

 

[GoVols]

Right but the current one does (alkatronic) and like I was saying I don’t think it’s possible without this method.

I was taking about the Mastertronic with phosphates.

You said that it can't be done. He'll get the job done.

No worries...

Mindstream is a great thing, and fits many reefer's needs.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I love mine already!! My initial observations are similar. I did call Step Ahead to gets some clarification on a few points, and Alex is SUPER HELPFUL!! I have a full video of the setup in the works, but my Macbook died yesterday before I could finish the editing and is in the shop now for repairs... :mad:;Drowning:mad::mad: I hope to have the video finished tomorrow, but for now, I'll just say that I LOVE this thing!!!

 

[GoVols]

I love mine already!! My initial observations are similar. I did call Step Ahead to gets some clarification on a few points, and Alex is SUPER HELPFUL!! I have a full video of the setup in the works, but my Macbook died yesterday before I could finish the editing and is in the shop now for repairs... :mad:;Drowning:mad::mad: I hope to have the video finished tomorrow, but for now, I'll just say that I LOVE this thing!!!

Found your thread and tagging...

 

[GoVols]

Sorry for the excessive quoting. An accident. I’m new here.

Squid,

You'll all good and hope you feel right at home.

Welcome to Reef 2 Reef!!

 

[Rich Klein]

Fighting the withdrawal of my Credit Card (barely) for a few more days, please keep us updated. Thanks for being early adopters.

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you for sharing. I'm glad setup went well and it is working fine. Do you have an additional way you can measure Alk just to see if the third reading leans towards the MindStream or Alkatronic? I guess the most important thing is stability over a magic number so maybe it doesn't matter. I ordered a MindStream yesterday and can't wait to get it. I was going to get a Trident but like some of the benefits this system offers over the Trident.

This is a fools errand. The margin of the error of the alkatronic and the mindstream overlap here - or? Ie - buy the thing you want to use - trust the values - if yoru stuff looks ok. Its a rabbit hole to keep chasing other testing methods -that may have 5% margin of errors. Now - if you have a perfect alkalinity solution against which you can check - thats different. But comparing different tests does not work (as trident has also said)

 

[reef_ranch]

I haven't seen other posts about receiving theirs, but until I saw your post I kind of figured Mindstream was all just an elaborate scam ;Clown. Happy to see it isn't.

I’m here to testify!! It’s the real deal!

 

[reef_ranch]

Yes, you can submerge them entirely. They work just fine in the sump. But if you lose your return pump, it won't likely detect an issue whereas if it is in the tank it could show O2 going down and the temperature changing if conditions warrant, as an example.

I’m going to put mine in the sump this weekend. I think the overflow may have too much turbulence and it’s pretty tight in the overflow.

 

[reef_ranch]

Is the app able to be used with a PC or just with a phone?

It’s a web app. So either. I’m hoping they will come out with a mobile app.

 

[reef_ranch]

This is a fools errand. The margin of the error of the alkatronic and the mindstream overlap here - or? Ie - buy the thing you want to use - trust the values - if yoru stuff looks ok. Its a rabbit hole to keep chasing other testing methods -that may have 5% margin of errors. Now - if you have a perfect alkalinity solution against which you can check - thats different. But comparing different tests does not work (as trident has also said)

This is totally correct. All of the testing devices will serve you well. I’m a gadget freak and have been following the Mindstream since the kickstarter campaign. I jumped on the Alkatronic because it was the first released and have never had an issue with it. It’s a great piece of equipment and is very acccurate and precise. I know the Triton is the same. And so far the Mindstream is pretty awesome. It’s too soon to proclaim it a perfect piece of kit but so far so good.

 

[reef_ranch]

If you can simply calculate it from pH and total Alk it should be very easy to add this field to the application.

Show me how.

 

[MnFish1]

Show me how.

There are numerous equations - but - borate etc - would be the wildcards......

 

[rushbattle]

Show me how.

I’m confused, you are measuring both total alkalinity with alkatronic and carbonate alkalinity with MM. What are you wanting to be shown?

I’m super jealous, I just have a Reefbot and my results are sliding all over. Wish I could have my Mindstream installed soon! Please keep updating us with your findings!

 

[reef_ranch]

I’m confused, you are measuring both total alkalinity with alkatronic and carbonate alkalinity with MM. What are you wanting to be shown?

I’m super jealous, I just have a Reefbot and my results are sliding all over. Wish I could have my Mindstream installed soon! Please keep updating us with your findings!

I was hoping to be able to compare the two to determine how accurate the Mindstream is. I have no other method of testing Carbonate Alk. I can compare the Alkatronic to the Salifert test and did for a while until I was satisfied with its accuracy and precision.

 

[rushbattle]

I was hoping to be able to compare the two to determine how accurate the Mindstream is. I have no other method of testing Carbonate Alk. I can compare the Alkatronic to the Salifert test and did for a while until I was satisfied with its accuracy and precision.

Of course, I’m sorry.

I think the answer is that it’s not really feasible. Quite a few other ions involved in total alkalinity.

 

[MnFish1]

I was hoping to be able to compare the two to determine how accurate the Mindstream is. I have no other method of testing Carbonate Alk. I can compare the Alkatronic to the Salifert test and did for a while until I was satisfied with its accuracy and precision.

One of the test kits (might be the salifert carbonate alkalinity) can do both. There is also the salifert total alkalinity kit (not sure which one you were using)