Mindstream

[Oldreefer44]

My wild guess is the investors were tired of pumping money in and not seeing return for 7 or 8 years and finally pulled the plug. That promoted the company to rush to production so they could have another source of cash inflow but the product wasn't even ready and they didn't even have a reliable contractor to manufacture the product. The presale was the company's last hope to keep the company running but obviously the cash was not enough to turn it around.

The way this ended is truly ugly. The company didn't even have the integrity to refund the customers who paid upfront. They didn't even announce the company was broke. I don't understand how some people could comfortably walk away with other people's money in the pocket knowing nothing was going to be delivered. Coming up with something like "overwhelming amount of orders" is just disgusting.

Agree completely except for the walking away with money part. Doubt there was much left to walk away with.

 

[roberthu526]

Agree completely except for the walking away with money part. Doubt there was much left to walk away with.

A thousand orders means $700K to a million dollars and they didn't have to make anything. I hope at least the employees got paid before they were laid off.

 

[Badilac]

Wow. Sucks for everyone that they went down.

 

[MnFish1]

My wild guess is the investors were tired of pumping money in and not seeing return for 7 or 8 years and finally pulled the plug. That promoted the company to rush to production so they could have another source of cash inflow but the product wasn't even ready and they didn't even have a reliable contractor to manufacture the product. The presale was the company's last hope to keep the company running but obviously the cash was not enough to turn it around.

Since this is all thats left to discuss. - I'll say I disagree. This does not make sense. Investors would not 'pull the plug' because they were impatient - just when (supposedly) - there were lots of orders - who would do that????

Isn't it more likely that 'someone bought the patents/company' and said cease operations (this happens quite a bit of the time) - OR - the product wasnt working as it should have and they couldn't produce? No one will likely ever know - but - My guess is it was not 'original backers pulling out just when the company was producing product'

 

[MnFish1]

A thousand orders means $700K to a million dollars and they didn't have to make anything. I hope at least the employees got paid before they were laid off.

Hopefully the person that knows an employee can ask

 

[Joe Rice]

My guess is it was not 'original backers pulling out just when the company was producing product'

I don't know what it would mean for investors to "pull out". Usually what happens when a startup needs additional cash is that they ask existing and/or new investors for another round of investment in exchange for ownership of some fraction of the company. If the investors decide that the company is worth nothing they will refuse, the startup runs out of cash and that's the end. The startup could have a million orders but if you can't convince an investor that you'll ever be able to deliver on those orders, or turn a profit on those orders, the investor isn't going to give you any money. Investors don't really "pull the plug" so much as they "turn off the faucet".

 

[MnFish1]

I don't know what it would mean for investors to "pull out". Usually what happens when a startup needs additional cash is that they ask existing and/or new investors for another round of investment in exchange for ownership of some fraction of the company. If the investors decide that the company is worth nothing they will refuse, the startup runs out of cash and that's the end. The startup could have a million orders but if you can't convince an investor that you'll ever be able to deliver on those orders, or turn a profit on those orders, the investor isn't going to give you any money. Investors don't really "pull the plug" so much as they "turn off the faucet".

What I meant was - if I was one of the 7,000,000 investors (I was not) once I saw the product selling, and the razor razor blade issue working well (i.e the disks and the monitor) - I would not pull out unless - there was a problem with the product - or another company said - Hey - We'll give you xxx, xxxx.oo to just shut down. I have not clue - the product may have been horrible... IDK

 

[User1]

Perhaps that's true for the very late stage investors. But Mindstream wasn't "total crap". They clearly had a real product and real technology - even perhaps breakthrough technology.

I think a lot of people will disagree here. We'll know more over the next couple of months to a year I'd wager but if it really was breakthrough or real we wouldn't be in this situation. At least in my opinion. I believe there is a reason some other manufactures are either A: going slow and in stages (Seneye) B: used a different technology (Neptune and GHL).

I believe their mistake was to shoot for the moon instead of trying to reach low earth orbit. In a sense monitor one or two items consistently well and then add to it over time.

 

[Joe Rice]

I think a lot of people will disagree here. We'll know more over the next couple of months to a year I'd wager but if it really was breakthrough or real we wouldn't be in this situation. At least in my opinion. I believe there is a reason some other manufactures are either A: going slow and in stages (Seneye) B: used a different technology (Neptune and GHL).

I believe their mistake was to shoot for the moon instead of trying to reach low earth orbit. In a sense monitor one or two items consistently well and then add to it over time.

We don't disagree. By "real" I just meant it wasn't vaporware or a total scam. They had what I would call prototype or alpha units in at least a few users hands and to some extent they seemed to measure the things they claimed they could measure. But, you're right - that's a very long way from having a market-ready product. And if they couldn't get it market-ready in 7 years, you have to wonder if it just can't be done.

 

[User1]

We don't disagree. By "real" I just meant it wasn't vaporware or a total scam. They had what I would call prototype or alpha units in at least a few users hands and to some extent they seemed to measure the things they claimed they could measure. But, you're right - that's a very long way from having a market-ready product. And if they couldn't get it market-ready in 7 years, you have to wonder if it just can't be done.

Ah, ok - got it. Totally agree.

 

[MnFish1]

Ah, ok - got it. Totally agree.

The technology 'worked' - maybe for 2 weeks instead of 4 - eventually it will work. If I were a start up company with a lot of negativity behind me - and for example - another large company said - just quit - we will pay you xxxxxxxxxxxx. I would do it - who wouldn't. Note - I'm not implying that this is what happened. The entire situation is odd to me

 

[MnFish1]

The technology 'worked' - maybe for 2 weeks instead of 4 - eventually it will work. If I were a start up company with a lot of negativity behind me - and for example - another large company said - just quit - we will pay you xxxxxxxxxxxx. I would do it - who wouldn't. Note - I'm not implying that this is what happened. The entire situation is odd to me

Actually I am implying that LOL;0

 

[ddrueckh]

I’m glad I got my money back when I did. For all those who purchased a unit, this is fraud...not a failed company. I don’t think they had any intention of ever delivering the units they sold. The individuals who ran the company should be held responsible.

 

[adamsfour]

Sorry to be the bearing of potential bad news. But one of the replies had a link to how CC work. My reading indicates the CC company only temporarily put a hold on the charge until they get hold of MS. If they can’t recover funds from MS they reinstate the charge to you. I would contact CC company to verify.

 

[thepotoo]

I can confirm that all employees have been laid off.

It's a shame, I was really hoping they would turn this around.

this is fraud...not a failed company. I don’t think they had any intention of ever delivering the units they sold. The individuals who ran the company should be held responsible.

This is the definition of a failed company. They absolutely were hoping to deliver the units. Having met and talked with several employees, no one was intentionally scamming anyone. Tech people tend to be very passionate about the technology and have rose colored glasses when it comes to estimating how ready it is.

Even under the best circumstances, ideas that seem good tend to be much harder to bring to market than anyone could predict. Especially very complex ones like this. I'll bet that's exactly what happened here.

I feel bad for the folks who bought a unit and used it for a couple months - no refunds for them, and now their unit will no longer work.

I feel bad for the kickstarter people - they're out of luck too.

I feel bad for the employees - hopefully they'll find new jobs.

This whole situation sucks.

 

[TARHEEL78]

I can confirm that all employees have been laid off.

It's a shame, I was really hoping they would turn this around.



This is the definition of a failed company. They absolutely were hoping to deliver the units. Having met and talked with several employees, no one was intentionally scamming anyone. Tech people tend to be very passionate about the technology and have rose colored glasses when it comes to estimating how ready it is.

Even under the best circumstances, ideas that seem good tend to be much harder to bring to market than anyone could predict. Especially very complex ones like this. I'll bet that's exactly what happened here.

I feel bad for the folks who bought a unit and used it for a couple months - no refunds for them, and now their unit will no longer work.

I feel bad for the kickstarter people - they're out of luck too.

I feel bad for the employees - hopefully they'll find new jobs.

This whole situation sucks.

Who confirmed this for you? I reached out to Ryan through LinkedIn but I haven't heard back from him yet. I'm one of the people who can't get their money back at this point.

 

[thepotoo]

Who confirmed this for you? I reached out to Ryan through LinkedIn but I haven't heard back from him yet. I'm one of the people who can't get their money back at this point.

I confirmed with one of the former employees. I have his personal cell phone number. I suspect they no longer have access to the work emails.

 

[PSXerholic]

Hmmmmm.....
I emailed Jim Clark which read my email yesterday evening and Ryan which read the email this morning but no response.

Very frustrating situation :-(

 

[ca1ore]

The people that invest in this type of start up company are (or should be) well aware that 9/10 startups fail.

True! Although most professional venture capitalists would expect to do better than 10%, they all recognize that failure is more likely than success. At the risk of being pejorative, i just don’t think it prudent to give $$ to these kinds of fly-by-night operations.

 

[TARHEEL78]

I confirmed with one of the former employees. I have his personal cell phone number. I suspect they no longer have access to the work emails.

Ryan has confirmed as well.