Mini Evil Cluster idea, looking for feedback

gtbarsi · Apr 1, 2015

I have been wanting to DIY an LED light, and have followed a lot of build threads. Some were under built, some seemed way extreme *caugh* jedimasterben *caugh*, but I think I have learned enough to make a go at it. Before I do so I want to get some feedback from as many as possible, as I really want to get this right the first time.

I am thinking about 2 or 3 clusters of LEDs over a 36" long 19" deep bow front tank. Currently I want to keep it within (or just above) the integrated hood, so they will be behind glass no matter what. I am planning on sourcing the LEDs from Steves LEDs, each cluster would contain:

I would love to put each color of each array on it's own driver and dimming channel but that is just too much wasted power. I am thinking that I will have 4 channels White, Blue, Vi, and other (cyan and lime). Do the ratios seem reasonable? Do you think driving Royal Blue, and Cool Blue together or Cyan and Lime together is a mistake?

I've tried to bring the LEDs as close together and as balanced as possible, I am planning on arranging each cluster "like" this:

Those are all 20mm stars, so the total array should be about 90mm x 60mm, with all of the LEDs within 80mm x 40mm of it. The Luxeon M primary optics are 90 degrees, the SemiLED Hyper Vilot primary optics are 60 degrees. All of the others are 120 degree primary optics, with 95% focused at 90 degrees.
Do you think it likely that I will see color blending issues?

Each cluster will have 12" of finned heat sync and a cooling fan centered over the area the LEDs are mounted to. I am thinking the fan will be blowing down on to the fins, and I will put something over the top of the fins (around the fan) to create an exhaust channel going out away from the center of where the array is mounted.
Am I going to have a cooling problem, as in too much heat in one small place impacting the LEDs?

On a 36" long 19" deep tank will two of these arrays be enough or do I need a third?
With a third is it likely that I will still have a bit of shadowing?
If so would I be better off with a pair of 39 watt T5s instead of the 3rd LED cluster?

Thank you for reading and any feedback you have.

gtbarsi · Apr 2, 2015

PaulKreider · Apr 2, 2015

You could also use something like the aurora puck from rapid led, makes it a bit easier, but I think either way you do it most led's still have the disco effect, unless you can get everything under a single lens like a kessil.

gtbarsi · Apr 2, 2015

PaulKreider said:
You could also use something like the aurora puck from rapid led, makes it a bit easier, but I think either way you do it most led's still have the disco effect, unless you can get everything under a single lens like a kessil.

I have looked at the pre-fab pucks and I have yet to find one I truly love, the Aurora is no exception to this.

Excluding the Hyper Vilot LEDs, all of the others are in a rough circle that is about 1.6" - 1.7" across(emitter to emitter), and since none of them have optics I was hoping that would lead to better blending. As you said there is no way around the disco effect completely with out a single lens.

I would LOVE to be able to make my own puck (even if it is just specify the LEDs to be used and the arrangement, and someone else does the work) but I do not think that is a real option. If someone has some experience to share on the subject PLEASE share!

gtbarsi · Apr 2, 2015

One correction to the original post, the line "Li Philips Luxeon ES Cyan 3 Watt LED" should read "Li Philips Luxeon ES Lime" 3 Watt LED, the rest of it should be accurate...

ReefLEDLights · Apr 2, 2015

Personally I'm not a fan of the Evil Cluster for only one main reason...The Primary White LED is more often than not way too Yellow

These highly efficient LEDs are more suited for architectural lighting rather than reef lighting.

I like to look at the Royal Blue 450nm as you primary Reef Grow LED. PAR per Watt the Luxeon and Cree offer the best efficiency.

Then to this add your Cool White and Warm White to complete the full spectrum.

Blues, Reds, Deep Reds, Greens and Violet 415-425nm in the right proportion add to the looks.

Here is a pic of a DIY Puck using BJB Solderless Connectors and Carclo Optics. The nice thing about these is there is no soldering or gluing and you can swap out an LED at any time.

Bill

ReefLEDLights · Apr 2, 2015

gtbarsi said:
One correction to the original post, the line "Li Philips Luxeon ES Cyan 3 Watt LED" should read "Li Philips Luxeon ES Lime" 3 Watt LED, the rest of it should be accurate...

Why choose Lime when you have RED Green and Blue?

Lime by itself does little for growth and this spectrum is already coverd by both the Warm White and Cool White LEDs

Varying the intensity of these will give you almost any colour to tweak the looks.

Bill

gtbarsi · Apr 2, 2015

ReefLEDLights said:
Personally I'm not a fan of the Evil Cluster for only one main reason...The Primary White LED is more often than not way too Yellow

These highly efficient LEDs are more suited for architectural lighting rather than reef lighting.

I like to look at the Royal Blue 450nm as you primary Reef Grow LED. PAR per Watt the Luxeon and Cree offer the best efficiency.

Then to this add your Cool White and Warm White to complete the full spectrum.

Blues, Reds, Deep Reds, Greens and Violet 415-425nm in the right proportion add to the looks.

Here is a pic of a DIY Puck using BJB Solderless Connectors and Carclo Optics. The nice thing about these is there is no soldering or gluing and you can swap out an LED at any time.

Bill

Bill,

I thank you for sharing, I really am trying to do this a certain way starting with the 12 watt Luxeon neutral white LED. From there every LED is a Luxeon 3 watt LED, custom mounted so the LED emitters would be a close as possible except for the violet leds which I have not found anyone custom mounting with other LEDs. The goal is to get all of the emitters as close as possible w/o optics to try and improve color blending.

When I mentioned a "puck" earlier I was referring to arrays of LEDs mounted together like the rapid led Aurora puck, or the ledgroupbuy lumina. I would love to be able to setup my own puck where I can get the LEDs even closer than I pictured, since they would all be mounted to the single "puck" and wiring to each LED wold be managed with electrical traces within the puck. The only wiring would be pads or connectors for each channel on once side of the puck.

As to the reason for the lime, it covers a HUGE spectrum (490-750), that is only touched on by the Cyan led. I do not think I need to add red, orange or amber, since the neutral white LED has plenty of those spectrums, and I like what I have seen you can do to the look of the tank by adding some lime.

saltyphish · Apr 2, 2015

I had lime in my diy lights not anymore, hated it. However, it seems to me that since your lights are in a cluster without optic I would assume that is a 120 degree spread. Based on that seems like your lights should blend together.

ReefLEDLights · Apr 2, 2015

gtbarsi said:
Bill,

I thank you for sharing, I really am trying to do this a certain way starting with the 12 watt Luxeon neutral white LED. From there every LED is a Luxeon 3 watt LED, custom mounted so the LED emitters would be a close as possible except for the violet leds which I have not found anyone custom mounting with other LEDs. The goal is to get all of the emitters as close as possible w/o optics to try and improve color blending.

When I mentioned a "puck" earlier I was referring to arrays of LEDs mounted together like the rapid led Aurora puck, or the ledgroupbuy lumina. I would love to be able to setup my own puck where I can get the LEDs even closer than I pictured, since they would all be mounted to the single "puck" and wiring to each LED wold be managed with electrical traces within the puck. The only wiring would be pads or connectors for each channel on once side of the puck.

As to the reason for the lime, it covers a HUGE spectrum (490-750), that is only touched on by the Cyan led. I do not think I need to add red, orange or amber, since the neutral white LED has plenty of those spectrums, and I like what I have seen you can do to the look of the tank by adding some lime.

gtbarsi

We specifically chose to avoid the the lumina or aurora puck simply for optics. Neither of these can support the latest optics and optimize efficiency.

The huge spectrum of the lime (490-750)...upto 750??? LUXEON Rebel Color LEDs

What it can do to the looks of a tank vs a controlled mix of RGB is debatable much like the question of who is hotter Ginger or Mary Ann?

If you do go with the 12 watt Luxeon I would add at least 4 more 450nm...To come close a 15K look. This does depend on the specific Bin of the Luxeon which may be warmer than planned.

Just food for thought

Bill

gtbarsi · Apr 2, 2015

ReefLEDLights said:
gtbarsi

We specifically chose to avoid the the lumina or aurora puck simply for optics. Neither of these can support the latest optics and optimize efficiency.

The huge spectrum of the lime (490-750)...upto 750??? LUXEON Rebel Color LEDs

What it can do to the looks of a tank vs a controlled mix of RGB is debatable much like the question of who is hotter Ginger or Mary Ann?

If you do go with the 12 watt Luxeon I would add at least 4 more 450nm...To come close a 15K look. This does depend on the specific Bin of the Luxeon which may be warmer than planned.

Just food for thought

Bill

Bill,

Yep that spectrum is correct look on page 11 http://www.lumileds.com/uploads/265/DS68-pdf. The peek is at 567, but the lime does run along the entire spectrum. I'm not looking to push a lot of lime or cyan, just fill in the color spectrum. I'm looking to feed my tank all the light it needs, and at the same time balance out the look so it is not quite so blue looking while trying not to wash out the pop from the Royal Blue, Cool Blue, and Hyper Violet.

As to the bin of the 4K luxeon M U55G

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

George

jedimasterben · Apr 2, 2015

ReefLEDLights said:
Why choose Lime when you have RED Green and Blue?

Lime by itself does little for growth and this spectrum is already coverd by both the Warm White and Cool White LEDs

Varying the intensity of these will give you almost any colour to tweak the looks.

Bill

I'd do at least a minuscule amount of research on why lime should always be added. One lime LED is brighter to the eye than several white LEDs at the same current. There is no LED array that can give the same visual punch as a metal halide better than those with lime. It's spectral half-width ranges from 510-620nm.

Red (630nm) and green (530nm) are wholly unnecessary when using quality (read: high-CRI) white LEDs and have no place over a reef tank.

OP - don't use that Luxeon M. It is a 70CRI model, which is very poor. You want a minimum of 80-85. Bridgelux BXRC-50G1000-B-04 are 5000K and 90CRI, and they're like $5 to boot. Use those instead, one per LDD driver. And if you're going to use any Luxeon M, then use the royal blue, as that's the closest that you can get to having the Luxeon T diode mounted (the M uses four T diodes in series, they are the most efficient royal blue LED available).

I would take a look at LEDgroupbuy's 430nm hyper violet. You will not find higher output nor anywhere near the spectral coverage.

In total, that gives you something like this, per cluster:

1x Vero 10 5K 90CRI @ 350mA
2x Luxeon M RB @ 700mA
2x Rebel blue @ 700mA
2x Rebel cyan @ 700mA
2x Rebel ES lime @ 700mA
4x violet (whether LEDgroupbuy or Steve's)

I recommend using LDD drivers, an HLG power supply (for this, you'd be looking at needing an HLG-120H-54), and a Bluefish Mini. You could also use the Storm controller, this would also give you six channels of control, one for each type of LED, but the $35 extra for the BF mini is absolutely worth it. I've been beta testing Bluefish since February of last year, and I've been one of the only testers for the Bluefish Mini, had it running for a few weeks now, love the thing.

If your tank will be SPS dominant, use two LED clusters and a pair of 24" T5HO to avoid shading.

ReefLEDLights · Apr 2, 2015

jedimasterben

Our team has done more than their fair share of research.

As far as using real estate and a driver for a Lime Green there is nothing wrong with that...

[video]https://youtu.be/Oj3VphK9AMk[/video]

https://youtu.be/Oj3VphK9AMk

That said.

For a Reef this spectrum range is covered by both the Cree Cool and Warm White.

Also this spectrum is rather limited in the natural reef.

This spectrum is also not very well used by corals so I have to ask why some put a special plate at the table for it?

IMHO I would add the Cree 660nm Photo Red on a LDD Driver. This when controlled can give you awesome looks without the necessary extra spectrum used by nuisance algae.

Too much of the Warm Spectrum >500 nm is more than available at the shallow reef and is used by algae. I like a little of this for looks but too much will ruin the recipe.

Bill

gtbarsi · Apr 4, 2015

Regardless of all of the charts I'm liking the way jedimasterbean's suggestion is playing out. Fewer emitters, more output, lower cost, lower power.

ReefLEDLights · Apr 4, 2015

What type of optics do you plan on using?

gtbarsi · Apr 6, 2015

I plan on having this low to the water, no secondary optics. There will be glass or plex between the emitters and the tank so the only thing that might impact the light output is some water droplets forming from condensation.

gtbarsi · Apr 6, 2015

I've been chatting with Nano Box about their LED / T5 Hybrid enclosure. I'm hoping that they will be agreeable in working out a deal so I can install my LEDs in this enclosure. Given that they work with the bluefish and bluefish mini and make really nice driver/controller enclosures I do not see why I would not have them do all of the drivers and wiring and just leave me with a medusa terminal block in the fixture to connect the LED wires to. Here are some picks of the enclosure from their Flickr page, everything about it is super slick.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nanoboxreef/15378472394/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nanoboxreef/15814728059/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nanoboxreef/16598937208/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nanoboxreef/16706084232/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nanoboxreef/16706080082/