Minimum tank size requirement for fish

[hgren]

For the fish, I would like to get

Yellow clown goby or Diamond watchman goby
Green mandarin - going to operate separate tank for culturing pods and use PualB method.
Tail spot blenny or Bi-color blenny
Firefish
Pair of clownfish

6 total

Also few corals, inverts, and anemone

What tank is bare minimum to have those 6 fish?

 

[SeahorseKeeper]

Do you know what type of anemone you plan on keeping? That should be factored into the tank size as well. I would say a 40 breeder would be the smallest that I would recommend.

 

[pcon]

For the dragonettes 100 galons minimum display + fuge volume. Relatively few people are successful with supplemental feeding.

A standard 29g is probably big enough for all the fish listed. May struggle with bioload without a sump and proper filtration but, thats a different problem.

 

[hgren]

Do you know what type of anemone you plan on keeping? That should be factored into the tank size as well. I would say a 40 breeder would be the smallest that I would recommend.

I want to get a BTA

 

[hgren]

For the dragonettes 100 galons minimum display + fuge volume. Relatively few people are successful with supplemental feeding.

A standard 29g is probably big enough for all the fish listed. May struggle with bioload without a sump and proper filtration but, thats a different problem.

Going to use PaulB method + will be culturing my own copepods

 

[James M]

I would go with a 70 gallon or bigger.

 

[c.poindexter]

IMO. A 70ish would be the smallest that I would go. Could you do it with smaller, probably so but it would involve a lot more work and time commitment.

 

[pcon]

Going to use PaulB method + will be culturing my own copepods

Have you already cultured pods? Do you have experience with difficult to feed high metabolism fish?

It's easy to say that line, but you are talking about feeding 3x a day even with a PaulB method and cultured pods. Plus the daily task of splitting and maintaining pod cultures. Every day for the next 4-8 years. In a small tank a dragonet is essentially a difficult anthias. They can be done but just a ton of work, and most of the time unsuccessful.

I don't mean to simply condescend, but we are talking about the care of a living being. It is important to give a realistic perspective for others interested in the subject.

 

[Pbh-reef]

Paul’s tank is around 100 gallons, that’s part of how he can be successful with mandarins, along with the supplemental feedings. I can hardly think of someone who was successful with a mandarin in smaller tank, maybe look on nano-reef.com and see if anyone has kept a mandarin for longer than a year in a nano. Ruby red dragonetts are smaller than mandarins and may be sustainable in a 40 or 60 gallon tank? I’m not sure.

 

[aqua_code]

I agree the mandarin is where you start running into issues. Here's how I see the build limits assuming you definitely want a pair of clownfish in there:

25-30 Gallon
Pair of clownfish
Firefish
Diamond watchman goby


40-60+ Gallons
Green mandarin
Tail spot blenny or Bi-color blenny

 

[hgren]

Have you already cultured pods? Do you have experience with difficult to feed high metabolism fish?

It's easy to say that line, but you are talking about feeding 3x a day even with a PaulB method and cultured pods. Plus the daily task of splitting and maintaining pod cultures. Every day for the next 4-8 years. In a small tank a dragonet is essentially a difficult anthias. They can be done but just a ton of work, and most of the time unsuccessful.

I don't mean to simply condescend, but we are talking about the care of a living being. It is important to give a realistic perspective for others interested in the subject.

No. I have been out of reefing for 10 years now. Trying to come back for hobby. Been researching about many things before I actually start.
I understand that we should be caring for our lives. I know mandarin is hard to success but only reason I started reefing was because of mandarin. This time I have dedication to babysit this mandarin.
Technically we are all caging these poor lives in our tank instead of swimming in ocean

 

[Joedubyk]

If you don't go the mandarin route, all of those would easily be able to fit in a 29g comfortably. Not really sure where folks are coming up with minimum of 70 g........

 

[7FootReefer]

You basically described my current tank, my tank is 25 gallons. I agree that it is not recommended in tanks under 50 gallons.

However, I have a mandarin, a pair of clowns, a purple firefish, a small starry blenny and 3 clown gobies. The biggest problem is keeping the mandarin fed, I feed live brine shrimp twice a week.

 

[aqua_code]

If you don't go the mandarin route, all of those would easily be able to fit in a 29g comfortably

Do you think a blenny would be comfortable in there with all those other fish? I've seen clownfish get very territorial after they are established and laying eggs.

 

[pcon]

@Joedubyk 70g is the general lower limit recommended for mandarins.

No. I have been out of reefing for 10 years now. Trying to come back for hobby. Been researching about many things before I actually start.
I understand that we should be caring for our lives. I know mandarin is hard to success but only reason I started reefing was because of mandarin. This time I have dedication to babysit this mandarin.
Technically we are all caging these poor lives in our tank instead of swimming in ocean

I commend you for researching before buying few people do. Your research should tell you, there are a few people in the world who have been successful long term keeping dragonets in small tanks. Off the top of my head I only can think of a few seahorse keepers who have extensive experience culturing live foods and feeding high metabolism picky eaters (the seahorses), who have kept them alive long term in a small tank.

Live food culture is a skill separate and to its own, from keeping aquarium fish and corals. It is extremely labor intensive, and temperamental process. worth investing time and effort into but far easier said than done.

No one is going to say throw a mandarin in a 20gal and whip up some pods in your spare time and it will be fine and easy. or at least no one should, when the ready alternative of just get an adequately sized tank is there.

Just to unpack your own point.

If you consider our actions as hobbyists, "caging these poor lives," why are you asking what the smallest size cage you can use is?

This is effrontery but I cannot help but ask from your posts.

If as you put it you have the "dedication to babysit" it can be done but I caution you it may take a herculean effort.

I do think the blenny would be fine, my friend has 14 fish in a 29 including a tail spot blenny and a pair of clowns.

 

[hgren]

You basically described my current tank, my tank is 25 gallons. I agree that it is not recommended in tanks under 50 gallons.

However, I have a mandarin, a pair of clowns, a purple firefish, a small starry blenny and 3 clown gobies. The biggest problem is keeping the mandarin fed, I feed live brine shrimp twice a week.

Do you use skimmer? What kind of tank are you using?

 

[hgren]

@Joedubyk 70g is the general lower limit recommended for mandarins.



I commend you for researching before buying few people do. Your research should tell you, there are a few people in the world who have been successful long term keeping dragonets in small tanks. Off the top of my head I only can think of a few seahorse keepers who have extensive experience culturing live foods and feeding high metabolism picky eaters (the seahorses), who have kept them alive long term in a small tank.

Live food culture is a skill separate and to its own, from keeping aquarium fish and corals. It is extremely labor intensive, and temperamental process. worth investing time and effort into but far easier said than done.

No one is going to say throw a mandarin in a 20gal and whip up some pods in your spare time and it will be fine and easy. or at least no one should, when the ready alternative of just get an adequately sized tank is there.

Just to unpack your own point.

If you consider our actions as hobbyists, "caging these poor lives," why are you asking what the smallest size cage you can use is?

This is effrontery but I cannot help but ask from your posts.

If as you put it you have the "dedication to babysit" it can be done but I caution you it may take a herculean effort.

I do think the blenny would be fine, my friend has 14 fish in a 29 including a tail spot blenny and a pair of clowns.

Yes. Culturing your fish food is hard but it can be done right? Also you could be running small size display tank and have bigger refugium.

Small tanks are cheaper and easier to maintain compare to big tanks. Thus focus towards mandarin more. Refugium also is easier to maintain compare to display tank. That's why I asked about the smallest tank.

 

[Squeaky McMurdo]

Quite the opposite in my experience. The bigger the tank the lower the maintenance because it’s easier to catch problems before they get serious. Serious problems means serious expense.

The start up cost of large tanks is the only thing that’s more expensive. A 29 gallon is the smallest I would ever consider running again. A 50 is the smallest I would be happy with long term.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I have experience with most of the fish on your list. I usually always recommend bigger, but feel they would do fine in a 29 gallon AIO. My smallest was a 45 gallon AIO that I only kept a pair of clowns in it. That would probably be ideal for your bioload. I would probably plumb in a refugium with a 29 but not with the 45. Also captive bred Mandarins apparently eat prepared food, but don't have experience with that. I have always thought about getting a Mandarin, but pods are to valuable as CUC for me.

Also kudos for doing research before buying the fish. This hobby is 90% preparation 10% execution. It is easy to fail, but a well thought-out plan will increase your chances of success.

 

[Peach02]

For the fish, I would like to get

Yellow clown goby or Diamond watchman goby
Green mandarin - going to operate separate tank for culturing pods and use PualB method.
Tail spot blenny or Bi-color blenny
Firefish
Pair of clownfish

6 total

Also few corals, inverts, and anemone

What tank is bare minimum to have those 6 fish?

I've got the equivalent bioload or higher in a 30 gallon from aquaone with no problems