Miracle Mud:How Does it Work?

[john.m.cole3]

Some well seasoned hobbyists use this stuff but nobody can explain what is in it that makes it work. I've heard claims of better polyp extension (PE) and improved coloration.

what do you know about Miracle Mud. As always, a good picture never hurts

 

[Elegance Coral]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=miracle mud analysis&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEUQFjAB&url=http://www.reefs.org/library/testing/miraclemud&ei=OB_RToFXgqC3B-igxK0N&usg=AFQjCNGY8kPuddJ-YrSPVa_vDW_zJHRfUw

In other words........ Snake oil.

 

[NeptuneGarden]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=miracle mud analysis&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEUQFjAB&url=http://www.reefs.org/library/testing/miraclemud&ei=OB_RToFXgqC3B-igxK0N&usg=AFQjCNGY8kPuddJ-YrSPVa_vDW_zJHRfUw

In other words........ Snake oil.

I've read these analysis in the past and it always made me scratch my head, because there are some HIGHLY respected hobbyist and professionals that swear by it.

What I would really like to see is an analysis with the new Triton ICP molecular water testing system with a M.Mud vs Non-M.Mud tank and see if micro elements in the water column are really being changed or maintained by the Mud, since this is really the meat of what they are selling in their product.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It works on the same principal as a true DSB and refugium. Or a planted tank.
By providing a large area and small particles for the bacteria to colonize in this case silica sand and then they added some minerals to make up the composition of the "soil" for the plants.
Planting the calurpa is what takes up most of the exess nutrients like Chato.
It's a throwback to Ron shimeck DSB style but in a bottle for consumers.
It's snake oil too like triton but from the eighties.
Hopefully some mud users chime in. There's a bunch on here.
Was a little spendy for me so I opted for sugar and oolite and Fiji mud.

It works.
I'd go with different rooting marine plants. That calurpa was used because of the rapid nutrient uptake. I think that was needed due to the ineffient skimmers at the time and GFO was new or not invented for aquaria yet.
Did I mention my wife bought turtle grass from juliannsprung at macna. Now I have to clean the fuge.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I've read these analysis in the past and it always made me scratch my head, because there are some HIGHLY respected hobbyist and professionals that swear by it.

What I would really like to see is an analysis with the new Triton ICP molecular water testing system with a M.Mud vs Non-M.Mud tank and see if micro elements in the water column are really being changed or maintained by the Mud, since this is really the meat of what they are selling in their product.

Lol
Look for richard Ross article on triton in skeptical reefer.

 

[NeptuneGarden]

Lol
Look for richard Ross article on triton in skeptical reefer.

LOL yourself...........
Look up the MACNA speech by the Triton founder from 2014 and you will see 99% of people do not understand how to use the Triton system or what the goals of it are.

It is not some miracle new system to fix everything and allow zero water changes and was never intended to be.
It's a tool to be used in conjunction with a proper whole tank maintenance system and nothing else. It does allow you to monitor micro element levels and heavy metal toxin levels more precisely and accurately than ever before, and that's all it is supposed to be.


Here you go .......... from the horse's mouth

 

[Brew12]

Lol
Look for richard Ross article on triton in skeptical reefer.

I believe you are referring to this one... long but interesting read.
http://packedhead.net/2015/triton-lab-icp-oes-testing-of-a-certified-artificial-saltwater-standard/
http://packedhead.net/2015/triton-lab-icp-oes-testing-of-a-certified-artificial-saltwater-standard/

 

[Elegance Coral]

I've read these analysis in the past and it always made me scratch my head, because there are some HIGHLY respected hobbyist and professionals that swear by it.

Always be wary of "professionals that swear by it" when they may have something to gain by endorsing a particular product. With "professionals" spreading untruths about a product, either deliberately or out of ignorance, it becomes easy to mislead even the "HIGHLY respected hobbyist".

 

[NeptuneGarden]

I believe you are referring to this one... long but interesting read.
http://packedhead.net/2015/triton-lab-icp-oes-testing-of-a-certified-artificial-saltwater-standard/

From the linked article

We think that Triton testing might be useful for looking for trends or for pointing out large excesses or lack of a particular element known to be problematic, but that using the results to fine tune trace element levels may not be feasible.

If you watch the 45 min speech by the Triton founder he repeatedly stresses this is what the system is for. It's not a 100% catch all, and was never intended to be. It's another a tool to use, and if used properly and not excessively for no reason it can help maintain a more balanced closed water system over a long period of time.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

From the linked article

We think that Triton testing might be useful for looking for trends or for pointing out large excesses or lack of a particular element known to be problematic, but that using the results to fine tune trace element levels may not be feasible.

If you watch the 45 min speech by the Triton founder he repeatedly stresses this is what the system is for. It's not a 100% catch all, and was never intended to be. It's another a tool to use, and if used properly and not excessively for no reason it can help maintain a more balanced closed water system over a long period of time.

The same could be said for miracle mud.

 

[Brew12]

It does allow you to monitor micro element levels and heavy metal toxin levels more precisely and accurately than ever before, and that's all it is supposed to be.

If the testing in the article is correct than the testing system is very precise but not necessarily accurate.

It's a tool to be used in conjunction with a proper whole tank maintenance system and nothing else.

Just like any tool it can serve a useful purpose if you understand the proper way to use it. I wouldn't blame a screwdriver for not being effective at driving in a nail. It is important to understand the positives and negatives of any tool you plan on using.

In a test like this precision is more important than accuracy imo. If you get a baseline test established that worked in your system this could be an excellent tool to see if any parameters have changed that could be causing problems.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

LOL yourself...........
Look up the MACNA speech by the Triton founder from 2014 and you will see 99% of people do not understand how to use the Triton system or what the goals of it are.

It is not some miracle new system to fix everything and allow zero water changes and was never intended to be.
It's a tool to be used in conjunction with a proper whole tank maintenance system and nothing else. It does allow you to monitor micro element levels and heavy metal toxin levels more precisely and accurately than ever before, and that's all it is supposed to be.


Here you go .......... from the horse's mouth

Yea. I know. My lol is in good fun and we'd both laugh if we were sitting together.
I totally agree with you.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

If the testing in the article is correct than the testing system is very precise but not necessarily accurate.



Just like any tool it can serve a useful purpose if you understand the proper way to use it. I wouldn't blame a screwdriver for not being effective at driving in a nail. It is important to understand the positives and negatives of any tool you plan on using.

In a test like this precision is more important than accuracy imo. If you get a baseline test established that worked in your system this could be an excellent tool to see if any parameters have changed that could be causing problems.

Hahaha good stuff. What are you going to doo in your 30 cube if your fluoride seems low.
Lol. I'd add miracle mud.

 

[john.m.cole3]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=miracle mud analysis&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEUQFjAB&url=http://www.reefs.org/library/testing/miraclemud&ei=OB_RToFXgqC3B-igxK0N&usg=AFQjCNGY8kPuddJ-YrSPVa_vDW_zJHRfUw

In other words........ Snake oil.

I know you mentioned it to me on fb, so I decided to dig a little deeper. Thank you for the link.

 

[Brew12]

What are you going to doo in your 30 cube if your fluoride seems low.

Crest... non whitening.

 

[john.m.cole3]

Hahaha good stuff. What are you going to doo in your 30 cube if your fluoride seems low.
Lol. I'd add miracle mud.

tap water has plenty of flouride in it

 

[john.m.cole3]

I know you mentioned it to me on fb, so I decided to dig a little deeper. Thank you for the link.

Oh nevermind, I misread your screen name here.

 

[Sir Chris]

I find it as a mess and not worth it as there's otherwise ways for denitrification as well as nitrification and I do find that odd it does both. Like a double negative. When I dive I don't find any mirical mud around the reefs. Maybe way deep so it feed micro organisms that then through food chain make it 2 a reef but not in my reef

 

[mardoon]

I use it in my refuguim but learn to keep in a bucket and with some live rock with it. But i replace half mud ever 9 month.