Miracle Mud. Worth it or No?

AmatuerAuer · Feb 26, 2015

Hi All,

I am in the process of designing my 30 breeder sump for a 75g reef tank.

I am going to have a sizable refugium including a 5" Deep Sand Bed (DSB).

My question is: Is Miracle Mud worth the price? Worth the hassle of a 50% swap out annually - OR - Is regular sugar fine sand acceptable?

The display tank (DT) will have a 2" deep sand bed for aesthetics.

Thank you!
AA

d2mini · Feb 26, 2015

I believe you need at least 6" for a DSB and no MM is not worth it.
For a DSB use regular sand.

kacrocorals581 · Feb 26, 2015

I've had tanks with mm and Fiji mud and without I can't comment on any noticeable difference between either brand or tanks without it all together Fiji mud was just a mess I can say that tho

AmatuerAuer · Feb 26, 2015

Thanks d2mini - I have read anything from 4-6". I could honestly do 6" but would prefer the extra space for chaeto and/or space for backflow in the event of a power outage.

I think 5" deep should suffice given that it is a 30 breeder so will be 10" long x 17" wide x 5" deep. Thats a lot of surface area to react..

Thanks Kacro. I will most likely use straight sand for simplicity sake.

9balliw · Feb 27, 2015

I am hoping I figured it was worth the risk and investment I just put 20 lbs of mm in my sump 3 trays 16" x12" x 1" Trying to stay with it and algae scrubber as only filtration is my goal. But I won't sell my skimmer and dual reactor for awhile tho

ja4207 · Feb 27, 2015

Garbage, hocus pocus, snake oil and last and most importantly completely false claims and advertisement.

Wiz · Feb 27, 2015

Isn't the purpose of a dsb to get the anaerobic bacteria that would collect in the bottom of the sandbed where it is depleted of o2? Wouldn't that mean deeper is better and surface area really is not as important? Ig it was about surface area why would it need to be deep?

AmatuerAuer · Feb 28, 2015

Surface area was perhaps the wrong wording. You are correct about depth/anaerobic bacteria.

The point I was trying to make is the area the DSB will occupy is large.

Wiz · Feb 28, 2015

didn't mean to argue I was honestly curious trying to make sure I understand these things.

Wiz · Feb 28, 2015

I actually just made a new thread called DSB function if you have a moment check it out maybe you can help me understand more

Dnahacker · Feb 28, 2015

I disagree with just about everything above, the reason you don't need do have a 6 inch deep mud bed is simple.. particle size, to achieve a icroaerophillic environment with sand takes a depth of 6 inches simply down to the dynamics of diffusion, bigger mesh (particle size) means ware moves more freely through the substrate Taking oxygen with it.. surface area is important in as much as the mud bed size has to be proportional to your system size.

I also thin the added benefit of Mud come from its ability to release trace elements back into the system... In my last system I had no issues with nutrients but I added a hob mud five as much for the pod farming as anything, the difference in the colours I saw in my acros was substantial, it does make a difference.

Wiz · Feb 28, 2015

Dnahacker said:
I disagree with just about everything above, the reason you don't need do have a 6 inch deep mud bed is simple.. particle size, to achieve a icroaerophillic environment with sand takes a depth of 6 inches simply down to the dynamics of diffusion, bigger mesh (particle size) means ware moves more freely through the substrate Taking oxygen with it.. surface area is important in as much as the mud bed size has to be proportional to your system size.

I also thin the added benefit of Mud come from its ability to release trace elements back into the system... In my last system I had no issues with nutrients but I added a hob mud five as much for the pod farming as anything, the difference in the colours I saw in my acros was substantial, it does make a difference.

I just read a very interesting article that says that larger size will prevent microfono from being able to move freely thereby hurting the populations and the export. It recommended for a true DSb to be a particle size between. 05 and .2. Specifically .125 is best for a good diversity.
http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

Wiz · Feb 28, 2015

Added wrong link. Fixed it. Sry

Dnahacker · Feb 28, 2015

I guess it depends on your motivations for adding the bed in the first place...if it is for denitrification then I wholeheartedly stand By what I posted above,if species diversity is your aim then I would suggest a rubble zone and / or cryptic zone would be a good option. DSB's are great if they are looked after, however if it goes anoxic it will produce hydrogen sulphide you could easily end with a wipe out on your hands. can a sump be all things to all men ?

Wiz · Feb 28, 2015

the purpose of this article was the denitrification. It says that the creatures that are helpful in this are inhibited by larger pieces.also states that there is a little scientific proof of the hydrogen sulfide being a problem. it does say that it will collect in the lower levels of the sand bed but that it is not as much of a problem as some would have you believe. You should read the article its really good