Mixing anemones

[aqua.family365]

I’ve currently got two anemones, rose bubble tip and a Colorado sunburst what other anemone could I mix with these? I was thinking maybe a Condylactis gigantea… would something like that work?

 

[reefsaver]

The general consensus I've found is don't risk it because a nem going down in a system could be detrimental to the livestock due to the nematocysts entering the gills.

 

[Hot2na]

The general consensus I've found is don't risk it because a nem going down in a system could be detrimental to the livestock due to the nematocysts entering the gills.

Hogwash

 

[bakbay]

I have 4 Haddoni’s, 4 Colorado’s, and 2 Chicago’s all in the same tank — no issues l! They don’t touch each other though, except same species.

 

[reefsaver]

Hogwash

Well I'm drawing my conclusion from the fact that if an Anemone gets cut up in a powerhead, unfired Nematocysts can enter the water column how is it hogwash?

 

[aqua.family365]

I have 4 Haddoni’s, 4 Colorado’s, and 2 Chicago’s all in the same tank — no issues l! They don’t touch each other though, except same species.

My two are next to each other but don’t touch either, Thankyou for the advice!!

 

[aqua.family365]

Well I'm drawing my conclusion from the fact that if an Anemone gets cut up in a powerhead, unfired Nematocysts can enter the water column how is it hogwash?

I have power head guards, I’ve had it happen before but I reacted quick enough and took the anemone out the wave maker before it got completely cut up… i removed it from the tank and it sadly died a few days later

 

[reefsaver]

I have 4 Haddoni’s, 4 Colorado’s, and 2 Chicago’s all in the same tank — no issues l! They don’t touch each other though, except same species.

Yeah if they don't touch eachother they should be okay.

 

[bakbay]

My big 18in+ red Haddoni got caught in the MP40 (thank goodness for 3D printed nem guards) and he recovered just fine!

 

[bakbay]

Yeah if they don't touch eachother they should be okay.

Even if they do touch one another, it should only sting but not release poison into the water column right? I’m still curious why you said not to risk it?

Also, I run carbon so that should mitigate potential challenges.

 

[jimfish98]

I was over at TSA this weekend and they were keeping Colorado and Black Widow together. Anything is possible.

 

[reefsaver]

Even if they do touch one another, it should only sting but not release poison into the water column right? I’m still curious why you said not to risk it?

Also, I run carbon so that should mitigate potential challenges.

Yeah they might sting, and if one is killed, it can be pretty rough on the tank. They do have Toxins but upon death it's more the rapid decomposition of the nem that will hit the tank more than the toxins, and the toxins in anemone are mostly made of proteins and peptides which break down pretty fast too, they can cause irritation in livestock but ultimately compound problems. The main issue is an anemone breaking down and decomposing giving you parameter swings which can hit your tank inhabitants pretty hard.
It's a pretty common rumor that a dead nem will "instant" kill your tank but it's not true.
It's just a combination of fluctuating parameters a bout of instability which ultimately results in a bad day.
Even if multiple Anemones are present in one tank and not even touching they can still fight eachother through a process called allelopathy, where they actually broadcast their nematocysts and perform chemical warfare but it's more species specific. Sorry for such a nuanced explanation.

 

[aqua.family365]

My big 18in+ red Haddoni got caught in the MP40 (thank goodness for 3D printed nem guards) and he recovered just fine!

I’ve got a 55gallon, what carpet nem would suit my tank? Ive heard they get huge..

 

[bakbay]

I’ve got a 55gallon, what carpet nem would suit my tank? Ive heard they get huge..

For a 55g, I think that you should stick with Mini Maxi Carpets and not Stichodactyla Gigantea, Haddoni, Mertenssi as these guys will get huge, really really fast! My 175g 6-footer is now small and I’m already in the process of upgrading.

 

[OrionN]

@aqua.family365
A healthy Magnifica or Gigantea hit and puree by the PH will wipe out all the fishes in your tank except clowns. Puree Anemone tend to release nematocyst into the water. I read several threads on this over the years. Anemone may sting each other when come in contact but I am never able to observe anything that lead me to conclude that there is/maybe chemical war fares between anemones, or corals-anemones for that matter. I keep almost every conceivable combination of anemone species together or in the same system. No carbon whatsoever. There are plenty of observation that suggest pathogen can passed between anemones, mainly the same species.

How fast an anemone get big strictly depends on how much feeding it gets. If you don't want it to grow, just don't feed it. They will do fine with just bright light and nutrients in the water but will not grow much at all. I keep an Magnifica for years in a 22 gal Oceanic cube under 250 W MH. No problem but with minimal growth and it did not outgrow it.

Right now I have two RFA , two Haddoni and a Gigantea in a 40 gal reef. I think this is their semi permanent home. I think I just feed them until they reach the size I want for the space then stop feeding. The two Haddoni are healthy while the Gigantea is recovering from been bleached.
I have three more Gigantea coming Thursday. They will go into this same system after QT and treatment if needed.

 

[D-Nak]

Yeah they might sting, and if one is killed, it can be pretty rough on the tank. They do have Toxins but upon death it's more the rapid decomposition of the nem that will hit the tank more than the toxins, and the toxins in anemone are mostly made of proteins and peptides which break down pretty fast too, they can cause irritation in livestock but ultimately compound problems. The main issue is an anemone breaking down and decomposing giving you parameter swings which can hit your tank inhabitants pretty hard.
It's a pretty common rumor that a dead nem will "instant" kill your tank but it's not true.
It's just a combination of fluctuating parameters a bout of instability which ultimately results in a bad day.
Even if multiple Anemones are present in one tank and not even touching they can still fight eachother through a process called allelopathy, where they actually broadcast their nematocysts and perform chemical warfare but it's more species specific. Sorry for such a nuanced explanation.

@reefsaver: Are you able to provide more detail on your statements? Can you point to scientific papers or other sources? There has been a lot of discussion on this topic, and it still hasn't been resolved.

Here's what I do know. An anemone doesn't have to die in order to completely "nuke" a tank (I assume this is the rumor you're referring to-- and it is most definitely TRUE). When an anemone is injured, typically when getting chewed up by a powerhead, it can send tentacles all over the tank, containing unfired nematocysts. Upon contact with a fish, the tentacles release neurotoxin via the nematocysts and can most definitely kill the fish. Unfortunately, this happened to me two times--once with S. gigantea and another time with H. magnifica. Both were decently sized (12"+) specimens, killed most of the fish (they had tell-tale "burn" marks from nematocysts and some still had tentacles stuck to them) aside from the clownfish, and both anemones ultimately recovered from their injuries (I still have them).

My understanding is that allelopathy is purely a chemical response, not directly related to the neurotoxin contained within the nematocysts. Are you saying that the neurotoxin is the chemical that's causing allelopathy or are they able to release another chemical? You said that anemones "broadcast their nematocysts and perform chemical warfare" and I'm a bit confused by this. Are you saying they simply launch their nematocysts into the water column which in turn releases the neurotoxin?

Again, I'd love to learn more about this, so I'm hoping you can point me to a scientific paper. I've read about intraspecific competition, but the anemones discussed are not the clownfish-hosting species that we keep in our reef tanks, though I can only assume that there are many similarities between them.

 

[reefsaver]

Anemone toxicity and tank "nuking":
You're correct that anemones don't need to die to potentially cause significant harm to a tank. The scenario described with injured anemones releasing tentacles and unfired nematocysts is well-documented. Nematocysts contain potent neurotoxins that can indeed be harmful or fatal to fish and other marine life.
A study by Nevalainen et al. (2004) in the journal Toxicon discusses the potency of sea anemone toxins:
"Sea anemone venoms contain a variety of biologically active proteins and peptides, including neurotoxins, cytolysins, and enzymes."
Allelopathy and chemical warfare:
The original comment conflates allelopathy with nematocyst discharge, which isn't entirely accurate. Allelopathy typically refers to the production of biochemicals that influence the growth, survival, or reproduction of other organisms.
A study by Chadwick and Morrow (2011) in the Journal of Experimental Marine Biology and Ecology discusses allelopathy in corals and other cnidarians:
"Many sessile marine invertebrates, especially cnidarians, produce allelochemicals that mediate competitive interactions with neighbors."
However, this study doesn't specifically mention anemones broadcasting nematocysts as a form of allelopathy.
Intraspecific competition:
While much of the research on anemone competition focuses on non-clownfish hosting species, there are studies on clownfish-anemone symbiosis that touch on competition. For example, a study by Holbrook and Schmitt (2005) in Nature discusses how clownfish mediate competition between their host anemones.
Anemone death and tank parameters:
The original comment is correct that a dead anemone can cause parameter swings due to decomposition, which can stress tank inhabitants. This is a well-known phenomenon in the aquarium hobby, though I couldn't find a peer-reviewed study specifically addressing this issue in home aquariums.
In conclusion, while some of the original statements are supported by scientific literature, others seem to be based more on aquarium hobbyist experiences and my thoughts are purely based off my knowledge and experience reading into similar context. The topic of anemone toxicity and its effects on reef tanks is complex and not fully resolved in scientific literature, particularly regarding home aquarium scenarios.
For detailed, peer-reviewed information on these topics, search databases like Google Scholar or Web of Science using keywords like "sea anemone toxicity," "cnidarian allelopathy," and "clownfish anemone competition."