Mixing first saltwater; few problems (including math)

markkazdad

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First, thanks to H@rry for allowing me to come over to his home early this morning. I have live rock waiting to go in the tank now.

I'm mixing in the 10 gallon tank since it was empty. I have about 7.5 to 8 gallons of RO in the tank. (5 1-gallon jugs + I drained the 3 gallon reservoir at work until it slowed to a trickle). I am using Instant Ocean (from the 25 gallon box) from Petsmart. It came as mostly a big chunk, but for the most part a little pressure turns it back to powder. I added 3.5 cups. (7 * 0.5).

Much of it dissolved right away, but after a few hours I thought to myself "Self. Remember in high school chemistry how they told you reaction rate increases with temperature..." so I put in a 300W heater that I had to pull from my 55 gallon because it is hard to control the temperature. I set it midway and ended up with almost 90 degree water after several hours. I turned it down to about 1/4 and went to work. When I came home, there were still some crystals on the bottom, obviously where the flow from the filter had allowed them to settle. I removed the heater since the water was still around 85.

I measured the salinity with the Instant Ocean plastic hydrometer. Had difficulty getting the bubbles to release from the pointer. At first, it read 1.026, then with the bubbles gone 1.020. Those tiny bubbles make a heck of a lot of difference. I also don't know how much my readings are off because of the elevated temperature. The thermometer is the cheap analog kind from Wal-mart. They had 3, all read differently. I took the one in the middle, which happened to match the stick-on thermometer that read 72.

Not having tried to figure out how to do the math, I added 1/2 cup more salt, and USPS was kind enough to drop off my Amazon package with a Hydro Koralia Nano 425, so I have now added that. Should the crystals completely disappear or will there always be a few leftover? In addition to the crystals, I now also have at least 5 little black fish that came off the point of sale Top Fin heater. I hope I can catch them with a net.

I did have one success so far -- I painted the back of the tank black with Krylon Fusion. That was easy, and I hope to never have to try to add a printed or solid vinyl background to a tank ever.

Thanks for feedback; I suspect it will be "patience, grasshopper".

By the way, the Wal-mart on South Parkway across from Parkway Place Mall has neither fish nor a Culligan machine. They did have a 15 gallon tank kit on the clearance aisle next to the pet aisles for $25 (down from $52). The employees there were pretty rude this morning.
 
I always had some stuff lift at the bottem when we used IO, and I would suggest getting a refractometer for salinity as most can be calibrated and are a lot more accurate. And yes patience is best for salt as only bad things happen when you rush. Like me a few weeks ago when I knocked my t5 fixture in our tank amazingly didn't get zapped when I stupidly reached in and grabbed it. Do your research and then read some more, ask questions and take your time!!
 
If you are using some solidified IO or any other salt mix that is partly solidified, I suggest that you check its alkalinity before using it. Obviously some moisture and probably some atmospheric CO2 got into the bag to bind with calcium content, possibly forming CaCO3 which is very hard to dissolve. It's not a bad idea to measure alkalinity of a salt mix when you mix it for the first time. Settling of some salt mix components occurs during shipping/storage. A lot of hobbyists rolls their salt mix bucket on the floor to mix the content really well before opening it.
 
Sorry, I read your post too late. I put the rock in, and I found some hitchhikers within a few minutes. Let's see if I can figure out how to post the bad cell phone pictures here. You can see the small pile of salt mix that remained. Tomorrow I am probably going to move the tank to another location, so when I drain the water I will try to leave out any undissolved mix. I suppose if one of the hitchhikers crawls right through the mix it may die, but most of the rock will be out of contact. I ended up getting more rock than I probably need. I may have to bust the one big flat piece up into smaller pieces. If I can find our camera with a macro setting, I'll start a build thread. There was also one hitchhiker about the size of a lentil that looked more like a flea. I couldn't get it in focus though.

Seeing double.
smallstar_w.jpg


Looks dead and squashed:
starlooksdead_w.jpg


Nope, it's alive!
starisalive_w.jpg
 
If looked like a flea it's most likely a pod, they are good natural food source for fish and corals. And like said above on the salt, get done test kits and check and see what it's at. Never a good sign when salt is hard and chunky
 
I don't think you need to worry about the white crystal. It looks like CaCO3. It won't dissolve in water unless pH is much lower. It's the alkalinity that you need to check and make sure that it's not depressed.

As for salinity, a refractometer is nice to have as Alex pointed out. You can check your swing arm hydrometer against a calibrated refractometer and find how much it is off. As long as its reading is consistent, it is usable. You just need to figure out the offset value.

I now also have at least 5 little black fish that came off the point of sale Top Fin heater

Little fish came off a heater? What are they?
 
I have an API Saltwater Master Test Kit arriving tomorrow. Is the "high range pH" test the one for alkalinity. My thinking was that I could get the Reef Master Test Kit later or may learn along the way a better choice.

Subjectively, some more of the residue has dissolved overnight, but the salinity is still only reading about 1.022. I'd like to get that a little higher.

Here's my plan, let me know if I'm going to hurt something. I'm currently constrained by not having any plain RO water, but I will be around where I should be able to get at least some distilled water tonight.

I want to put about 0.5 gallons of the 1.022 water in a gallon jug. Add x cups of salt, agitate to dissolve, and pour it back into the tank. I estimate the tank to currently have about 6 gallons of water in it.

So, the IO instructions say 0.5 cups per 1 gallon. I assume that should yield around 1.025. Is it safe to say that in 1 gallon of water, each 0.1 cup of IO yields in increase in salinity of 0.005? Or 0.04 cup of IO yields in increase of 0.002?

If so, then to increase salinity in 6 gallons by 0.002, I'd need to add 6 x 0.04 = 0.24 cups (roughly 1/4 cup).

Is that how sensitive this mixing is? i.e. if I'm mixing a 5 gallon batch, a 1/4 cup of measurement error can make the difference between ending up with ~1.021 vs ~1.025?

Is there a better method of mixing up a salinity booster?
 
That reasons for why I quit using IO, kent takes .5 cup per Hal to get to 1.021-1.023 then you add like 2 table spoons per gal to get to 1.026. Just a thought on salt mixing, go buy a 30 gal brute trash can and a extra power head and mix your water in it. Also if you top your tank off with salt water instead of RO it will raise salinity. But as long as you have no coral in the tank then that salinity lvl will not hurt anything, most fish only tanks run that low. Coral needs 1.024-1.026. Also you need a dKH test kit more than PH for salt water, ph can run under 8 and be just fine but if you dKh is to high or to low can cause more problems. And if you try a chance a ph number you will never win. DKh needs to be 7-12, most people go for the 8-11 range. 3 important test kits besides a refractometer, our dKH, calcium, and magnesium. Another important rule don't dose anything you can not test for!!
 
Here's a good article for the important aquarium water parameter levels.

API kH test kit is inexpensive and pretty accurate although their nitrate and phosphate test kits are not accurate enough for reef aquarium use.

pH follows alkalinity relatively closely in general, but pH does not tell the whole story. Some buffer materials such as borate can keep pH high around 8.2 while bicarbonate and carbonate levels (kH, aka carbonate hardness) drops. An excessive CO2 level in modern air-tight house can depress pH, too.

In my tank, alkalinity (kH or meq/l) level decreases rather quickly while calcium level does not fluctuate much at all. Since I use calcium reactor coupled with a small amount of lime in top-off water, my alkalinity and calcium levels do not change much. I usually monitor alkalinity since my calcuim stays pretty constant.
 
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An excessive CO2 level in modern air-tight house can depress pH, too.

That looks like a great article, and I *will* come back to it. The fact that I zeroed in on the above quote and thought "great, my house is built in 1978 and is very leaky" tells me that I'm not quite ready to understand the why or the how yet.

First I just need to understand what I need to buy. I can get to Petsmart or Petco today or tomorrow, or I can order something online. Since all I have in the tank is live rock, I think I have time to wait for shipping if there is significant savings to be had. (let's define that as > $10). It would be helpful to know if the local stores in Huntsville tend to stock what I need or not.

When I Google for API kH kit, I find their freshwater kit. I am guessing that is not what I want.

I'm a visual learner. If someone can post a link to a product here or in PM, that will help me significantly.

I am wondering if I should try to return the big block of IO that remains and exchange it for Reef Crystals (that's the only two choices I remember seeing locally).
 
The API kH kit can be used for both fresh water and salt water.

A number of us buy salt mixes from Drs. Foster & Smith when they have them on sale. For example, right now a 200 gallon box of Reef Crystals is $53.99 (free shipping for any order $49 or more.) It is a lot cheaper than buying salt from Petco or Petsmart.

I don't know if the local store will take back your salt or not. ReeF Crystals is a good salt mix, though.

As for the CO2, if you have a full house with family and pets, and especially if you cook with gas stove, CO2 can build up in the house and affect the pH of your tank water. A large system does not get affected easily but a small tank can. My 15 gallon nano that I had in my kitchen always had a lower pH than my big tank. This is because CO2 dissolves in water and turns into carbonic acid, thus reducing your pH.
 
The API kH kit can be used for both fresh water and salt water.

A number of us buy salt mixes from Drs. Foster & Smith when they have them on sale. For example, right now a 200 gallon box of Reef Crystals is $53.99 (free shipping for any order $49 or more.) It is a lot cheaper than buying salt from Petco or Petsmart.

But what's the shelf life of the crystals once it's opened? Wouldn't it tend to absorb water from the air and solidify? With about 10 gallons of salt water, even if I did 30% water changes every week, it would take me more than a year to use up that box.


As for the CO2, if you have a full house with family and pets, and especially if you cook with gas stove, CO2 can build up in the house and affect the pH of your tank water. A large system does not get affected easily but a small tank can. My 15 gallon nano that I had in my kitchen always had a lower pH than my big tank. This is because CO2 dissolves in water and turns into carbonic acid, thus reducing your pH.

We don't have a gas stove, but my family is returning home today. With my wife back, I may have to be worried about the buildup of CH4. :pound:
 
The salt in a 200 gallon box comes in four separate plastic bags. As long as you keep your salt mix in an air tight container, it should last a long time. Salt in a 150 gallon bucket does not come in any plastic bag, but the bucket keeps it air tight and usable for a long time.

You can buy salt mix in a much smaller quantity from the online shop, too. If you purchase a few other things, such as test kits, additives, or fish food, your total should be high enough to get the free shipping.
 
Neither Petsmart nor Petco on University stock the API kH kit. I have to go to Huntsville tomorrow morning and will be near the Aquarium Shop so I will check there.
 
Mark - You can order 95% of your supplies from premiumaquatics.com, marinedepot.com, and bulkreefsupply.com. If you can't find what you want there you probably don't need it. Also, if pays to check Amazon.com too. It may surprise you to find out how many reef items they have at a very good price. The only thing I order from Dr. F&S is salt.
 
I agree with H@rry about Amazon and other suppliers he listed. I google for the price of an item that I need and go with the lowest one (including shipping) as long as the supplier is a reputable one. There are a number of repulable stores such as BRS, Premium Aquatics, Marine Depot, That Fish Place, Big Al's Online, etc, besides Drs. Foster and Smith. Hellolights is great for replacement lamps and other supplies.
 
I found the API kH and GH test kit at the Aquarium Shop. It was $10.55, so just a not unexpected bit more than Amazon. Also, the saltwater tanks looked a bit better today. (The large tank in the lobby at The Orthopedic Center was so covered with algae you could barely see in.)

I ran the API kH test and found the color change on the 11th drop (maybe just a bit of a green change on the 10th drop).
 
Oh, and thanks for the list of vendors. I have seen most of them but premiumaquatics and hellolights are new to me.
 

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