Mixing high end (CSB) anemone with long tentacle?

[JC_k]

I always see posts about how different types of bubble tip anemones will kill each other either through chemical or bacterial reasons. I was hoping to purchase a Colorado sunburst soon and don’t want anything to happen (obviously), will it be ok with 2 long tentacle anemones? I believe they are wild caught as I don’t think they reproduce readily in the aquarium so will the bacteria from the Lta affect the CSB?. They won’t be touching but will be in a 75gallon system.
Any help appreciated!

 

[nezw0001]

Don’t do it. It will end badly.

 

[D-Nak]

Don’t do it. It will end badly.

Did you have a CSB with a LTA? If so, please elaborate.

 

[D-Nak]

My CSB is in a tank with two magnifica and one gigantea. Once the CSB settled in, it never moved. My mags, on the other hand, won't stop moving around. I don't see any issues with allelopathy with any of the nems. LTAs and CSBs may be a different story.

 

[JC_k]

Thank you! I know there’s a few people who have had different variations of bta together and they all die off except one. I might just get rid of them to be safe, it won’t be for another month or two. If anyone else wants to chime in please do! I would like to keep all together.

 

[nezw0001]

I have several high end nems and have not had luck mixing them with any species of nem. And yes I have tried LTA, haddoni, gig and mag

 

[D-Nak]

I have several high end nems and have not had luck mixing them with any species of nem. And yes I have tried LTA, haddoni, gig and mag

Wow, you are a tough nut to crack.

What happened? How did you know it was allelopathy? Which BTAs are you talking about? CSB? ChSB? Were there any other BTAs in the tank? Was this in your 450g tank? Are you sure that the other anemones weren't already sick when introduced?

 

[nezw0001]

I have infernos, CSBs, ChSBs and arizona sunsets. Check out my build thread and you will see what i have ended up with for separate nem tanks. The expensive BTAs were never in the main tank but in the propagation system. They weren't sick on arrival. Looked great for several weeks then just slowly went downhill until they either A) died or B) I moved them to separate tanks and they magically recover. To me it seems pretty obvious that its some form of allelopathy due to how they recover once in their own system.

 

[nezw0001]

hope this makes sense.

 

[JC_k]

I have infernos, CSBs, ChSBs and arizona sunsets. Check out my build thread and you will see what i have ended up with for separate nem tanks. The expensive BTAs were never in the main tank but in the propagation system. They weren't sick on arrival. Looked great for several weeks then just slowly went downhill until they either A) died or B) I moved them to separate tanks and they magically recover. To me it seems pretty obvious that its some form of allelopathy due to how they recover once in their own system.

Have you ever tried treating with cipro? I read somewhere on here it might help with keeping them together since it kills off any harmful bacteria, but don’t know if anyone’s actually tried it. Curious to see if it actually helps

 

[D-Nak]

Have you ever tried treating with cipro? I read somewhere on here it might help with keeping them together since it kills off any harmful bacteria, but don’t know if anyone’s actually tried it. Curious to see if it actually helps

Cipro is typically used to treat bacterial infections, usually with wild or recently imported anemones, and not due to allelopathy (aka chemical warfare). While anecdotally Cipro appears to help with nems that aren't doing well, there's no proof that it actually helps with allelopathy. In other words, there is nothing pointing directly to Cipro as the reason for an anemone recovering. Would that same anemone have survived if it was placed in its own tank and left to recover on its own? No one knows for sure.

Furthermore, the treatment protocol for Cipro requires that the anemone is placed in a separate QT tank (treating the DT with Cipro is NOT recommended, primarily because it could kill beneficial bacteria). After the treatment is done, the anemone can be placed back into the DT, but it shouldn't be assumed that the anemone is any stronger or now immune to allelopathy.

 

[D-Nak]

I have infernos, CSBs, ChSBs and arizona sunsets. Check out my build thread and you will see what i have ended up with for separate nem tanks. The expensive BTAs were never in the main tank but in the propagation system. They weren't sick on arrival. Looked great for several weeks then just slowly went downhill until they either A) died or B) I moved them to separate tanks and they magically recover. To me it seems pretty obvious that its some form of allelopathy due to how they recover once in their own system.

Were the BTAs together in the same system? Or was it a single BTA with the other species of anemones? If they were together, we can assume that it was the other BTAs that caused the problem.

If there was a tank with a LTA and BTA, and the BTA went downhill, was removed and placed in its own tank, then eventually recovered, we could then guess that the LTA may have affected the BTA.

 

[nezw0001]

D-NAK I now have separate systems for my high end nems. They are doing great. Being a scientist I was interested in exploring the mixing idea and did, with poor results. I agree that cipro is best for bacterial infections. I did try it to help my nems recover and felt it had no impact. The best medicine for their recovery was once again putting them in separate systems and allowing them to recover on their own.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

D-NAK I now have separate systems for my high end nems. They are doing great. Being a scientist I was interested in exploring the mixing idea and did, with poor results. I agree that cipro is best for bacterial infections. I did try it to help my nems recover and felt it had no impact. The best medicine for their recovery was once again putting them in separate systems and allowing them to recover on their own.

What did you do for separate systems?

Im quite sure im experiencing this right now. My CSB and Supernova have been in a steady decline (shrinking, loss of color and shortend tentacles) since arrival while in the tank with rainbows, a black widow, mag and gig.

The rainbows in this tank are natural splits from the mother which ive had for almost 2yrs. The black widow is a natural split from a local hobbiest who has had the mother for years. The Mag and Gig were from another hobbiest who had them for a while so werent fresh from the wild. The rainbows and widow were added first at the same time. The mag, gig, csb and nova were all added after that but together as a group. The csb and nova seem to be the only ones not doing great as described.

Never really believed the allopothy thing but i think im starting to

I have a system one can go in that doesnt have any nems in it but the other i would have to set up a small 10g for. Thought i could put a light over it and add some rock from the tank without any nems in it for now. Any suggestions or ideas would be helpful. Definatley dont want to lose these guys.

@nezw0001

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

@D-Nak @FarmerTy @Nemguy123

Thoughts on above

 

[FarmerTy]

I would lean towards it being a bacterial issue and not allelopathy. I have combined Colorado, Sunbursts, Mak Infernos, Supernovas, Infernos, and Lemondrops over a 1-2 year period. Each started with a pre-emptive cipro treatment before being added to the system. I had success with it but I think other factors besides the cipro treatments were helpful in my setup for it to be possible.

1) I run UV 24/7
2) I had a decent amount of total water volume... 320 gallons. I would not try this on a smaller system.
3) Some of the anemones were physically in another tank that was plumbed together though they did share the same water
4) ran ROX carbon 24/7

Some observations down the line as I slowly decided to narrow down the anemones I had. I only kept Supernovas and CSBs moving forward.

1) It works until it doesn't work. Even just moving an anemone from one tank to another in the same water could cause issues.
2) Adding back in clones from my own CSBs that spent 2 years in another person's system with no other anemones caused mixing issues. So full genetic clones reacted in the tank as if they were foreign when reintroduced and caused some anemones to react and start declining and losing color.

I have no experience with mixing the BTAs with gigs, mags, or LTAs so no direct experience with your unique situation. FWIW, for the price of CSBs, I wouldn't mix them. They can recover but sometimes no amount of treatment or removal from the system and into its own system can recover the anemone. Best of luck!

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

I would lean towards it being a bacterial issue and not allelopathy. I have combined Colorado, Sunbursts, Mak Infernos, Supernovas, Infernos, and Lemondrops over a 1-2 year period. Each started with a pre-emptive cipro treatment before being added to the system. I had success with it but I think other factors besides the cipro treatments were helpful in my setup for it to be possible.

1) I run UV 24/7
2) I had a decent amount of total water volume... 320 gallons. I would not try this on a smaller system.
3) Some of the anemones were physically in another tank that was plumbed together though they did share the same water
4) ran ROX carbon 24/7

Some observations down the line as I slowly decided to narrow down the anemones I had. I only kept Supernovas and CSBs moving forward.

1) It works until it doesn't work. Even just moving an anemone from one tank to another in the same water could cause issues.
2) Adding back in clones from my own CSBs that spent 2 years in another person's system with no other anemones caused mixing issues. So full genetic clones reacted in the tank as if they were foreign when reintroduced and caused some anemones to react and start declining and losing color.

I have no experience with mixing the BTAs with gigs, mags, or LTAs so no direct experience with your unique situation. FWIW, for the price of CSBs, I wouldn't mix them. They can recover but sometimes no amount of treatment or removal from the system and into its own system can recover the anemone. Best of luck!

Thanks for the response Ty.

Do you think a cipro treatment would help?

The supernova i moved to its own system and seems to be doing better. It takes food and is open all day with its mouth tight as far as i have seen. Still dark of coarse, color will take time and doesnt seem as shrunken. Its in a system that’s been running for several months with fish and growing coralline.

The CSB is in its own tank but it’s just a quick set up to isolate it. I added some rock from another system to help with bio filter. im unsure about it. Its mouth stays tight and takes food but its so shrunken.

I could post some pics later if that would help.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Pics today....
The Nova when I got it and the Nova now, keep in mind it was mixed with the other nems for about 2 months and the now pic is since being removed and alone in its own system for about a week. I believe it will be okay and is looking better since on its own.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

The CSB when I first got it and now. The situation is the same as above but this one I’m a little more concerned about.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

@OrionN @D-Nak @Nemguy123 @FarmerTy

Thoughts or suggestions on moving forward in hopes not to lose these would be helpful.