Miyagi Tort Recession

[Acroporaguy]

Hey all,

My miyagi tort has had some recession in between the axial corallites for a while now. It's very slow. I haven't added any Acropora to the tank for a very long time. I check my parameters every day, so stability is not the issue. No bite marks on the underside of the colonies. The colony is still growing well. Plenty of light and flow. What could this be? AEFW or something else?

Thanks

 

[Chrisv.]

You can typically blow aefw off with a pipette or syringe of tank water and diagnose that way. If you're still not sure you can dip and see what happens.

 

[Acroporaguy]

You can typically blow aefw off with a pipette or syringe of tank water and diagnose that way. If you're still not sure you can dip and see what happens.

Unfortunately I can't remove the colonies as they've fully encrusted the rock. They've also encrusted onto the front glass. When I use a pipette I can't see anything fly off the coral.

 

[Chrisv.]

Unfortunately I can't remove the colonies as they've fully encrusted the rock. They've also encrusted onto the front glass. When I use a pipette I can't see anything fly off the coral.

Nothing flying off is a good sign!

 

[ScottB]

Unfortunately I can't remove the colonies as they've fully encrusted the rock. They've also encrusted onto the front glass. When I use a pipette I can't see anything fly off the coral.

I am a little more aggressive when basting for a worm check. I use a turkey baster with RO.

Next thing I would pest check for is red/white bugs at night. They are VERY small, but anything seen moving on acro flesh is a bad bug.

Lastly, it is hard to tell from the pic, but could this not be just simple shading?

 

[Acroporaguy]

I am a little more aggressive when basting for a worm check. I use a turkey baster with RO.

Next thing I would pest check for is red/white bugs at night. They are VERY small, but anything seen moving on acro flesh is a bad bug.

Lastly, it is hard to tell from the pic, but could this not be just simple shading?

My mistake, I am using a turkey baster to blow the corals, not a pipette. But I haven't tried using RO yet. I did have a bug issue a while back, but I eradicated them with interceptor. I'm also seeing some of the recession in the center of the colony which is getting tons of light via T5. I highly doubt it would be shading. In your opinion does this look like damage caused by a pest (eg. AEFW), or just STN? Thanks

 

[ScottB]

My mistake, I am using a turkey baster to blow the corals, not a pipette. But I haven't tried using RO yet. I did have a bug issue a while back, but I eradicated them with interceptor. I'm also seeing some of the recession in the center of the colony which is getting tons of light via T5. I highly doubt it would be shading. In your opinion does this look like damage caused by a pest (eg. AEFW), or just STN? Thanks

Does the recession remind you pattern-wise of your prior infestation? When I had bugs, it was almost exclusively STN at the base and working up.

When I had aefw, the loss was all in the center or shaded sides.

So if I had to guess --based on my own experience -- this is something other than those two pests.

 

[Acroporaguy]

Does the recession remind you pattern-wise of your prior infestation? When I had bugs, it was almost exclusively STN at the base and working up.

When I had aefw, the loss was all in the center or shaded sides.

So if I had to guess --based on my own experience -- this is something other than those two pests.

When I had bugs I couldn't even see any signs of stress surprisingly. I've inspected the corals at night, and I can't see anything out of the ordinary. Are AEFW really destructive? This recession has slowly progressed over a few months now, and I can't see any eggs. The underside doesn't have any bite marks, but I do have a bit of recession near the base. I think that's from a lack of light rather than pest related though...

 

[Chrisv.]

My experience with AEFW was that they were extremely destructive. Like... "Get rid of all of your acros, go without acros, and start over destructive."Ppp Idk if some miracle treatment has been developed since then, but if it is aefw and a better solution hasn't been found, expect to have terrible color and slow death from EVERY SINGLE ACROPORA until they are all finally dead. Until you're 100% sure it's not AEFW, don't waste any money on more acros.

Maybe some treatment option has been developed since I dealt with it a decade ago, but I haven't really heard of anything that leads to long term eradication and they are NOT a pest that can be "managed."

 

[Acroporaguy]

My experience with AEFW was that they were extremely destructive. Like... "Get rid of all of your acros, go without acros, and start over destructive."Ppp Idk if some miracle treatment has been developed since then, but if it is aefw and a better solution hasn't been found, expect to have terrible color and slow death from EVERY SINGLE ACROPORA until they are all finally dead. Until you're 100% sure it's not AEFW, don't waste any money on more acros.

Maybe some treatment option has been developed since I dealt with it a decade ago, but I haven't really heard of anything that leads to long term eradication and they are NOT a pest that can be "managed."

Well I haven't added any new Acros in a long time (8 months at least), and my tank is packed full of them. The recession is super slow, I'd think that AEFW would be super destructive in my tank. Hopefully I can rule them out.

 

[Chrisv.]

Well I haven't added any new Acros in a long time (8 months at least), and my tank is packed full of them. The recession is super slow, I'd think that AEFW would be super destructive in my tank. Hopefully I can rule them out.

Honestly I really hope so too. They are a disaster. If you can't pull the colony for a test dip, then squirting water may be your best bet for now. They are more active at night, so maybe the squirt test will be best performed after dark.

As you know, stn is a symptom, not a cause-- so there are many things it could be and AEFW is just a worst case scenario. Maybe this is going to be one of those "gosh, a colony I really liked died on me, I guess I will never know why...but everything else is fine.... Better get another frag of that when I see it available" situations.

Have there been any major parameter swings? I've seen this with all swings, phos swings, salinity changes, nitrate changes, etc.

Fingers crossed.

 

[ScottB]

When I had bugs I couldn't even see any signs of stress surprisingly. I've inspected the corals at night, and I can't see anything out of the ordinary. Are AEFW really destructive? This recession has slowly progressed over a few months now, and I can't see any eggs. The underside doesn't have any bite marks, but I do have a bit of recession near the base. I think that's from a lack of light rather than pest related though...

Mine were selectively destructive. Most colonies they left untouched. Some were clearly more tasty than most. Those I would frag off some clean pieces and chuck the rest.

Leaning away from AEFW. Unless you keep a lot of predators, they spool up pretty fast and would have done much more damage than that by now.

Ship an ICP is probably next. Anybody else or just this tort? My torts are the most finicky.

 

[Chrisv.]

Mine were selectively destructive. Most colonies they left untouched. Some were clearly more tasty than most. Those I would frag off some clean pieces and chuck the rest.

Leaning away from AEFW. Unless you keep a lot of predators, they spool up pretty fast and would have done much more damage than that by now.

Ship an ICP is probably next. Anybody else or just this tort? My torts are the most finicky.

+1 on all of this. I don't think I ever saw AEFW on my green slimer for example.

My tank was milli heavy, valida, ten. and I had a couple of nice tables (efflo, solitariness,). They all eventually turned into calcium reactor media.

No need to get ahead of yourself before you actually see the wee demons.

For what it's worth, my torts also die first when other parameters are out of line. ICP is a good plan.

 

[Acroporaguy]

Mine were selectively destructive. Most colonies they left untouched. Some were clearly more tasty than most. Those I would frag off some clean pieces and chuck the rest.

Leaning away from AEFW. Unless you keep a lot of predators, they spool up pretty fast and would have done much more damage than that by now.

Ship an ICP is probably next. Anybody else or just this tort? My torts are the most finicky.

A millepora and stag are showing a similar issue. You can see the lightening in between the corallites on this stag for example. I made the polyps close up (usually super fuzzy), so it would be easier to photograph. The only fish in the tank is a flame hawkfish, so no predators.

Might do an ICP

 

[ScottB]

A millepora and stag are showing a similar issue. You can see the lightening in between the corallites on this stag for example. I made the polyps close up (usually super fuzzy), so it would be easier to photograph. The only fish in the tank is a flame hawkfish, so no predators.

Might do an ICP

How long have you been fish poor? My corals hate being fish poor.

 

[Acroporaguy]

How long have you been fish poor? My corals hate being fish poor.

He's been by himself for at least 8 months now, as he's killed all his tankmates. To be fair, my tank is only 20g. I feed a lot of live phyto daily to ensure that the corals get nutrients. You think my problem could be nutrient related?

 

[ScottB]

My opinion for what it is worth:

a) We all know that the zoox photosynthesis produces the vast majority of calories consumed by acropora. But not all.

b) We must supply the rest. And it should be always available, but in small quantities.

c) We measure NO3 and PO4 residuals to know that there is enough nutrient in the system as a whole. Acropora are the least efficient consumers of nitrate of all corals. They can, but it is work. They consume PO4 indirectly, by ingesting waterborne bacteria that have ingested phosphates.

d) The most efficient source of food for acropora is ammonia and ammonia fed bacteria. Obviously at very low levels, but always available. Fish pee, fish poop, even fish respiration is always a low dose, constantly available, easy to capture and easy to ingest source of energy. IMO, acropora superfood.

On the reef, everything is either competing or killing or engaging in some form of symbiosis. Corals build the reef to home & feed the fish, the fish manage algae and pests and feed the corals. And sometimes eat the corals

It is quite a trek these days to reach a healthy coral reef, but when you do, the fish are plentiful and (to me) shockingly fat.

 

[Chrisv.]

If you really get to the point of pushing the panic button, take some frags from the stn-ing areas at night. Dip them and see what comes off. The colonies look like they are big, so a frag or two as a test won't be a deal breaker.

 

[Acroporaguy]

If you really get to the point of pushing the panic button, take some frags from the stn-ing areas at night. Dip them and see what comes off. The colonies look like they are big, so a frag or two as a test won't be a deal breaker.

I'll definitely give that a shot when I make a few frags! In regards to your previous comment (didn't see it), I haven't experienced any swings. When I look back on photos a few months ago, I can actually see the recession beginning, so this has been going on for a while now. This photo was at the beginning of August. I didn't see it then, but the highlighted area is the same area of recession in the very first photo I posted in this thread.

 

[jda]

That is usually from point source lighting not getting there anymore or sometimes from debris that has settled for a bit before being blown off. With the reflected T5s, probably not that. As corals grow, colonies are a lot different than frags and mini colonies, so sometimes you need some different flow... not just more, but effective, which is hard to deal with since each tank is different. I see no AEFW bites on there, but they usually are on the bases and undersides if there is any and not on the top.