Why 14 or 30 days when we know that both ICH and Velvet cannot stay on the fish for more than 3-7 days (ICH) and 4 days (Velvet).
Modified Tank Transfer with Medication
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Why 14 or 30 days when we know that both ICH and Velvet cannot stay on the fish for more than 3-7 days (ICH) and 4 days (Velvet).
Have we all forgot about Uronema?
Can somebody please tell me how to kill it? What medication would I use?
Why 14 days? Are you not confident in the copper you're using or the current data we have about the life cycles?
Here's my issue. We all know the data. We all understand what therapeutic levels are. We all know that if you spray a wasp nest with the right posion, they will all bail off. Most will die below the nest on the ground. (Sorry for the bad analogy). Lol. When we flood the water column with posion, it has a direct affect on these parasites. We know that both ICH and Velvet can't stay on the fish very long. Let's say 7 days for both (Max). So why is it that we are running these medications out so long? Either we trust the data we have and the medication we're using are we don't.
We are assuming that the life cycle of the parasites may be staggered (so not all parasites are leaving the fish at the same time), and that some might live long enough to complete the first cycle and reattach. Considering the longest timeframe ( 7 days) might be extended by a few days, 14 days is a pretty safe bet that any stragglers are gone, as long as you are transferring to a tank with no chance of encysted parasites (cross-contamination, reusing equipment with cysts present, etc). You COULD be ok before 14 days, but that leaves absolutely no margin for error.
This is my understanding at least. I could be making it all up [emoji13]
4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Another thing is human error and bad tests. I've failed several times to eradicate even at 20-40 days.
melypr1985
totally addicted
Well, the best I have found is a combination of copper and metroplex. That, of course, doesn't always work. Uronema, simply put, sucks. But no sir, I have not forgotten about it. It's not actually something that needs to be addressed in most species though. There are several though, that are known to have an issue with this (such as Chromis) and should be treated for it prophylactically. Not all fish should be treated the same way. There are many treatments available for certain parasites or illness and they should be applied to each fish based on the species and their particular needs.
Like ngoodermuth stated.... the parasites don't all fall off the fish at the same moment on the same day. The 14 days allows for a little human error (as 4ford mentioned) and for the staggering of the parasites life cycle. It's a matter for being safe rather than cutting things down to the bone to make it that much faster. What's an extra couple days?
I understand that, but I haven't heard of any data to support that yet. The studies we have...are what I go by and what most of the treatment protocols are based on. So until I have issues or see new data that replaces what we currently have to go by (which most are ancient) I will follow the data that's out there. I wish we had new data to look at but unfortunately the 72 day cold water study for ICH that evolved into the new 76 day "worst case scenario" is all we have to my knowledge. Nothing wrong with playing it safe, I just prefer to live on the edge until I a reason to modify.
I understand. We just don't have any data that supports "stragglers" like mentioned above. Honestly his 14 day thing is just too long for me especially when I QT a lot of fish all the time. If I can cut it down to 7 or 10...that's much better than 14. I honestly hate having to QT which is why I paid over $1,000 for a decent microscope. So far, I haven't seen ICH alive on a fish after 7 days.
I have yet to find anything that will 100% kill it. I'm beginning to think that blue Chromis have severe sensitivity issues. It seems to depend on the fish, vendor, LFS, stress, etc. I have yet to figure it out. They are so active that even in the absence of Uronema wounds and any sign of a parasite under a microscope....They seem to die from mere stress due to hypoxia. I'm need to test with 100% pure oxygen. Also with black bags and dark room on acclimation. Maybe with both. Either way, Copper has been the only medication I've found that seemed to have a direct affect and kill it, but I'm unsure if it really killed it. Or it just removed it from the fish.
Hey, there would be no progress without experimentation. Keep us updated on the results.
OP
OP
reburn
Community Member
Ok so full disclosure.
I've backed out of experimental procedures at this time. Currently I have a number of fish in TTM. Achilles, Achilles gold rim hybrid, bipartus wrasse female, meleagris wrasse female, 1.2 trio of flame wrasse, flame angel and 2 female carberryi. To be completely honest. I don't have the stones. The monetary value of the fish is too high. In a week when these fish are done I am bringing some cheaper fish from a wholesaler that I work closely with. On the upcoming Test group I'll include an angel, anthias and a wrasse. I'm also going to hit up a LFS that I saw a couple of very sick fish and try to pick one up as a patient zero if you will.
I'm modifying the schedule on last time. 3 days ramp. 6 doses of copper 12 hrs apart. Copper through the entire schedule, so 10 days. I will also be running 1.020 SG and aerating heavily.
I've backed out of experimental procedures at this time. Currently I have a number of fish in TTM. Achilles, Achilles gold rim hybrid, bipartus wrasse female, meleagris wrasse female, 1.2 trio of flame wrasse, flame angel and 2 female carberryi. To be completely honest. I don't have the stones. The monetary value of the fish is too high. In a week when these fish are done I am bringing some cheaper fish from a wholesaler that I work closely with. On the upcoming Test group I'll include an angel, anthias and a wrasse. I'm also going to hit up a LFS that I saw a couple of very sick fish and try to pick one up as a patient zero if you will.
I'm modifying the schedule on last time. 3 days ramp. 6 doses of copper 12 hrs apart. Copper through the entire schedule, so 10 days. I will also be running 1.020 SG and aerating heavily.
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