Moody Duncan Coral

[Dburr1014]

Appreciate the check-in, but I haven't figured it out yet. It's now just always in all the way and never comes out anymore for the last week.

Please post nutrient levels and alk, cal, mag, ph, temp.
Full tank picture and close up of the Duncan.
Is the flow to strong?
Let's figure this out. It won't last much longer if it's always closed up.

 

[testuser]

Please post nutrient levels and alk, cal, mag, ph, temp.
Full tank picture and close up of the Duncan.
Is the flow to strong?
Let's figure this out. It won't last much longer if it's always closed up.

Appreciate the concern, here are the items you requested:

Nitrates: 0
Phosphates: 0 (both of these appeared to be perfectly clear on the white paper)
Salinity: 1.025
pH: 8.15
Alkalinity: 7.7
Calcium: 420
Magnesium: 1320
Temperature: 77

All of the tests except Magnesium are Salifert. The magnesium is Aqua Forest.

The return pump is on the highest setting, but it barely moves any tentacles in that area of the tank, and it's pointing toward the top of the water slightly. I have 2 astraea snails to handle the hair algae, and a nassarius snail for moving through the sand. For what it's worth, this started a week before getting the snails.

I thought it was too much light, so I put it in a more shaded area, and it got worse. Per the recommendation here, I put it back in its same spot and it's always in now. I have a NICREW 30w at 40% for 10hrs of the day. I used to have it 11hrs a day, but that seemed like too much and may have contributed to the hair algae.

I think that should be all of the details. Let me know if there's anything else you would like me to share that could help figure out why this Duncan is upset, and why all of the other corals appear to be happy.

The pictures attached were while the lights were off and it was still early in the morning.

 

[Dburr1014]

Appreciate the concern, here are the items you requested:

Nitrates: 0
Phosphates: 0 (both of these appeared to be perfectly clear on the white paper)
Salinity: 1.025
pH: 8.15
Alkalinity: 7.7
Calcium: 420
Magnesium: 1320
Temperature: 77

All of the tests except Magnesium are Salifert. The magnesium is Aqua Forest.

The return pump is on the highest setting, but it barely moves any tentacles in that area of the tank, and it's pointing toward the top of the water slightly. I have 2 astraea snails to handle the hair algae, and a nassarius snail for moving through the sand. For what it's worth, this started a week before getting the snails.

I thought it was too much light, so I put it in a more shaded area, and it got worse. Per the recommendation here, I put it back in its same spot and it's always in now. I have a NICREW 30w at 40% for 10hrs of the day. I used to have it 11hrs a day, but that seemed like too much and may have contributed to the hair algae.

I think that should be all of the details. Let me know if there's anything else you would like me to share that could help figure out why this Duncan is upset, and why all of the other corals appear to be happy.

The pictures attached were while the lights were off and it was still early in the morning.

For one you probably need a little more flow. most if not all Coral like a random chaotic flow. This is how they shed their waste.
Two, you never want to be zero on phosphates and nitrates. This is how Coral eats.

 

[testuser]

For one you probably need a little more flow. most if not all Coral like a random chaotic flow. This is how they shed their waste.
Two, you never want to be zero on phosphates and nitrates. This is how Coral eats.

I just got a new powerhead that I planned on putting in the tank on the lowest setting about halfway down the tank.

What would you recommend for raising the nitrates and phosphates? Maybe my eye is a bad judge for shades of white to blue or white to pink, but it sure looked clear to me. I feed about twice a week with LPS pellets and reef roids. Should I increase feeding to help increase that?

What's strange to me was that it was open all the time for the first 2 weeks. You would think that the nitrates and phosphates would be elevated due to the hair algae growth, but maybe it's taking it over (it's probably using it all, making the levels basically 0).

As an aside, for what it's worth, these levels have been around this for weeks now without any swings.

 

[Dburr1014]

I just got a new powerhead that I planned on putting in the tank on the lowest setting about halfway down the tank.

What would you recommend for raising the nitrates and phosphates? Maybe my eye is a bad judge for shades of white to blue or white to pink, but it sure looked clear to me. I feed about twice a week with LPS pellets and reef roids. Should I increase feeding to help increase that?

What's strange to me was that it was open all the time for the first 2 weeks. You would think that the nitrates and phosphates would be elevated due to the hair algae growth, but maybe it's taking it over (it's probably using it all, making the levels basically 0).

As an aside, for what it's worth, these levels have been around this for weeks now without any swings.

PO4 0.05 min to 0.12
NO3 at least detectable.
I'm not seeing any fish in the tank, is this fishless?
I would say feed the fish more but if you don't have any, sodium phosphate and sodium nitrate or calcium nitrate.

But, feeding fish more is my first go to.

Side note edit: I don't see much algae growth. Are you talking nuisance or what's growing in your rock as in macro?

 

[testuser]

PO4 0.05 min to 0.12
NO3 at least detectable.
I'm not seeing any fish in the tank, is this fishless?
I would say feed the fish more but if you don't have any, sodium phosphate and sodium nitrate or calcium nitrate.

But, feeding fish more is my first go to.

Side note edit: I don't see much algae growth. Are you talking nuisance or what's growing in your rock as in macro?

I don't think that the resolution of Salifert is fine enough for detecting phosphates that low.

This is a fishless tank, that's right. For increasing nitrates, do you have any recommended brands for that?

I had a lot of green hair algae, but my snails took care of a lot. It's basically just diatoms/detritus on the sand bed, and just some 1/4" hair algae here and there now on the rocks and a little bit on the corals at times. I figured though that Nitrates and Phosphates would be low since the hair algae consumes it for growth. I've seen that at least noted by a few hobbyists. Oh, and not referring to the macro. Maybe that's consuming too much?

Could dosing reef roids more often help encourage nitrate and phosphate increase, or would the supplements that you mentioned be better?

 

[Dburr1014]

I don't think that the resolution of Salifert is fine enough for detecting phosphates that low.

This is a fishless tank, that's right. For increasing nitrates, do you have any recommended brands for that?

I had a lot of green hair algae, but my snails took care of a lot. It's basically just diatoms/detritus on the sand bed, and just some 1/4" hair algae here and there now on the rocks and a little bit on the corals at times. I figured though that Nitrates and Phosphates would be low since the hair algae consumes it for growth. I've seen that at least noted by a few hobbyists. Oh, and not referring to the macro. Maybe that's consuming too much?

Could dosing reef roids more often help encourage nitrate and phosphate increase, or would the supplements that you mentioned be better?

I use loudwolf for both.
Reef roids is high in po4 but not certain about no3. IMO, it most likely has some in it.
You could feed more of roids but if you see more nuisance algae I would stop or switch to something like flakes.

 

[testuser]

I use loudwolf for both.
Reef roids is high in po4 but not certain about no3. IMO, it most likely has some in it.
You could feed more of roids but if you see more nuisance algae I would stop or switch to something like flakes.

Do you think I could use Brightwell NeoPhos and NeoNitro? In the meantime, I'll kick up an increase in reef roids dosing until those come in.

 

[Dburr1014]

Do you think I could use Brightwell NeoPhos and NeoNitro? In the meantime, I'll kick up an increase in reef roids dosing until those come in.

Yes

 

[testuser]

Yes

How long of dosing this would you give before moving to other potential issues if the Duncan still doesn't improve? Though I feel like you're right, it started to happen I think after the hair algae appeared, and probably sucked those levels dry.

 

[testuser]

Yes

Actually, I just realized that I have NP-Bacto-Balance from Trip Marin. Would that help increase both as well?

 

[Dburr1014]

How long of dosing this would you give before moving to other potential issues if the Duncan still doesn't improve? Though I feel like you're right, it started to happen I think after the hair algae appeared, and probably sucked those levels dry.

I don't know. Dose a couple days, test. Try to keep them off zero. Keep an eye out for issues. You know your tank better than anyone.
This is just a hunch about the Duncan. Could be something else. I can only assess given the facts you give and try to help.
Could be water, light(spectrum and or intensity) bugs, nutrients, ect. A whole lot of things.
We just do them 1 at a time and try to pin this down.

 

[Dburr1014]

Actually, I just realized that I have NP-Bacto-Balance from Trip Marin. Would that help increase both as well?

Yes

 

[testuser]

I don't know. Dose a couple days, test. Try to keep them off zero. Keep an eye out for issues. You know your tank better than anyone.
This is just a hunch about the Duncan. Could be something else. I can only assess given the facts you give and try to help.
Could be water, light(spectrum and or intensity) bugs, nutrients, ect. A whole lot of things.
We just do them 1 at a time and try to pin this down.

Great, thank you very much! I will keep this thread posted.

 

[testuser]

So far I have been able to install the powerhead and left it on the lowest setting. That tank desperately needed more flow like you said. I noticed that both my micromussa and favia started to extended their tentacles a lot more and the micromussa instantly looked so much fluffier. It was pretty amazing to watch. Hopefully that will keep them cleaner.

Meanwhile, the Duncan remains moody and actually retracted even further after the flow change. At least that indicates it's still responsive and alive. But there was virtually no flow around the Duncan before.

Tonight, I should be able to dose both the NeoPhos and the NeoNitro to the desired levels. I'll follow-up how that goes within a day or so.

 

[testuser]

So I've been dosing nitrate and phosphate for a couple of days now and it looks like it is depleted in a day pretty quickly (at least that's how the first day was). It's still detectable after 24hrs, but significantly less. As of this morning, phosphate is maybe .02 or .01 (very faint blue), and very faint pink for nitrates at around 2ppm.

Should my expectation be to regularly dose nitrate and phosphate to the tank? Just making sure that sounds normal enough. Maybe my tank is just too "clean".

As for my Duncan, how long before I move on to something else that's making it not happy? Wasn't sure how long it needs higher nitrates and phosphates before it may come out again if that's the issue.

 

[testuser]

I don't have a good feeling about this guy. I hope it can recover...

 

[testuser]

Any thoughts guys? He's tucked in more now than ever. How long should I wait before moving on to the next thing for this little duncan?

 

[testuser]

Update: It receded fully and fully disintegrated. Such a shame, but I imagine it was due to the undetectable nitrates and phosphates. Thankfully, the rest of the colors look good, so at least there's that.

 

[snorklr]

fwiw, my tank has been running at zero nitrates and phosphates for 2 years and my duncan went from 1 to 8 heads in that time so i think you had something else going on...i've just recently been using aquavitro fuel and reef roids to try to bring the levels up due to some unhappy zoas but the duncans been just fine