More PayPal F&F Requests Lately??

[ADAM]

** This is not anyone I’ve met or been in contact with through R2R**

Whats the deal with all the sellers lately with what seems like a “store name” and portraying themselves as a “store/vendor” but when you ask about how payment is made; on their website, do they send an invoice by email, or standard PayPal... they all of a sudden want PayPal Friends and Family? Then when I question it they act a bit insulted.... Friends and Family wouldn’t stop someone from calling the CC Co. and filing a claim?
However, I said that I wouldnt do PP-FF since I don’t know them in any way, nor have I had any past dealings, and the DOA wording seemed a little more aggressive than most. Generally, if someone has offered me a really good price on a package deal or similar discounted purchase; they may mention FF, ask to split the seller fee due to the discounted pricing, or emend offer it as a way to save a few more bucks. This doesn’t seem as sketchy to me since it comes off as optional. I still don’t do FF, but more times than not I throw in a little extra (1-3%) to help with fees or shipping when I know it’s good deal or they are always easy to work with on getting info or extra pics of the item(s) I’m buying.

As for the most recent situation: Once I said that I won’t do PPFF;
They said “well that’s our primary way of selling and most stores in the LA area are all that way.” Also; “G&S doesn’t give us any protection, just like FF doesn’t cover you”
They never asked if I wanted to cover the fee, split the fee, or anything of that nature. So if I didn’t send FF there wasn’t an option to buy!? Add that to the previously mentioned DOA they sent, and I got the impression I was gonna be sent a crap coral with no means of recourse.

But maybe I need start telling my customers to pay upfront, they are signing away chance of holding me liable for something I sell them, and I/ my business is the one who needs all the protection from them! I wouldn’t have many customers after a few weeks.... and it’s likely the reason they have a extremely nice looking HG torch for a “good” price and it hasn’t sold in the month they have had it available

Figure it in to the price(s) you tell someone. As a long time medium-high end coral buyer I can say IMO it’s not a good look. As a sales and service business owner I can say IMO it’s still not a good look.

Sorry it’s more of a rant than a question!

So in conclusion, have any of you noticed more people asking for FF when not on R2R?

 

[Reefer1978]

I haven't noticed an increase. And would never pay FF. Just my 5 cents.

 

[Hasted]

I sell / buy MTG cards a lot and use PayPal F&F. If someone would ever ask to go through GS when buying, I would just have them pay the extra fee so I would end up with the same amount of $.

No one should turn down GS if the buyer pays the extra fee.

 

[Grill]

I would think anyone selling should have a final price that reflects any Paypal fees. This eliminates any uneasiness for the transaction. Kinda like what R2R request for the selling forum, all prices should reflect included shipping. Makes it easier for both the seller & buyer.

 

[Reefer1978]

I would think anyone selling should have a final price that reflects any Paypal fees. This eliminates any uneasiness for the transaction. Kinda like what R2R request for the selling forum, all prices should reflect included shipping. Makes it easier for both the seller & buyer.

I agree with you about PP fees, but not shipping. Many deals consist of multiple items, including shipping in every single one would be a hit to the buyer. It's much easier just to have a flat, additional shipping fee.

 

[ADAM]

I agree with you about PP fees, but not shipping. Many deals consist of multiple items, including shipping in every single one would be a hit to the buyer. It's much easier just to have a flat, additional shipping fee.

Don’t think they meant each item would have shipping calculated. But instead like many threads you see where they have multiple frags/corals for sale and will have something like; “shipping to 48 states is $40 dollars or free at $300” for example.

 

[Reefer1978]

Don’t think they meant each item would have shipping calculated. But instead like many threads you see where they have multiple frags/corals for sale and will have something like; “shipping to 48 states is $40 dollars or free at $300” for example.

Fully agree here!

 

[EMeyer]

Paypal friends and family (or Venmo, same thing). It makes me mad because its so pointless.

3 freaking percent. Sellers cry over their lost 3%. THREE percent. Thats $3 on a $100 order. And for $3, they ask the buyer to revoke any kind of protection on their purchase?

I'm less offended by the fact that theyre asking me to give up buyer protection than I am the fact that they are doing this over THREE DOLLARS. The shipping materials required to properly ship corals cost much more than that. The shipping costs themselves will probably be twenty times more than that.

If this seller is crying so much over their lost THREE DOLLARS, what else are they doing to cut corners and save a few cents? Huge red flag.

And Ive never encountered it anywhere but R2R, but I'm sure it happens in any market with lots of individual sellers.

 

[KGNickl]

** This is not anyone I’ve met or been in contact with through R2R**

Whats the deal with all the sellers lately with what seems like a “store name” and portraying themselves as a “store/vendor” but when you ask about how payment is made; on their website, do they send an invoice by email, or standard PayPal... they all of a sudden want PayPal Friends and Family? Then when I question it they act a bit insulted.... Friends and Family wouldn’t stop someone from calling the CC Co. and filing a claim?
However, I said that I wouldnt do PP-FF since I don’t know them in any way, nor have I had any past dealings, and the DOA wording seemed a little more aggressive than most. Generally, if someone has offered me a really good price on a package deal or similar discounted purchase; they may mention FF, ask to split the seller fee due to the discounted pricing, or emend offer it as a way to save a few more bucks. This doesn’t seem as sketchy to me since it comes off as optional. I still don’t do FF, but more times than not I throw in a little extra (1-3%) to help with fees or shipping when I know it’s good deal or they are always easy to work with on getting info or extra pics of the item(s) I’m buying.

As for the most recent situation: Once I said that I won’t do PPFF;
They said “well that’s our primary way of selling and most stores in the LA area are all that way.” Also; “G&S doesn’t give us any protection, just like FF doesn’t cover you”
They never asked if I wanted to cover the fee, split the fee, or anything of that nature. So if I didn’t send FF there wasn’t an option to buy!? Add that to the previously mentioned DOA they sent, and I got the impression I was gonna be sent a crap coral with no means of recourse.

But maybe I need start telling my customers to pay upfront, they are signing away chance of holding me liable for something I sell them, and I/ my business is the one who needs all the protection from them! I wouldn’t have many customers after a few weeks.... and it’s likely the reason they have a extremely nice looking HG torch for a “good” price and it

 

[KGNickl]

When selling I say F&F or add fees to the total if goods and services. Buyers choice. When I buy I usually ask the seller if it’s ok if I send goods and services and that i will add in the fees to the total I send so they receive the same amount. No legit person will argue that. Only time I will send F&F is with people who have good feedback and established presence online.

 

[Reefer1978]

When selling I say F&F or add fees to the total if goods and services. Buyers choice. When I buy I usually ask the seller if it’s ok if I send goods and services and that i will add in the fees to the total I send with good and services do they receive the same amount. No legit person will argue that.

You would not have me as a customer. Seller covers fees, not buyer. Simple as that. If you can't figure out how to include 3% I am happy to move on to someone who can.

Not trying to be mean, but every single coral I have ever sold included the fee in the price. It's my way of providing customer service, an attempt at offering buyers comfort with protection, and not nickel and diming a customer for 3% which ps pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's the cost of a frag Plug, a bad and some rubber bands.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Red flag and lost sale on my behalf.
Youre a vendor - not my relative and im a customer- not a friend to clarify the language written

 

[ADAM]

The DOA policy was also written so that even if the package was on time, the coral was dead, and there were pictures of the dead coral in the shipping box, within the 1 hour time limit, “they may issue a store credit but no refunds of any kind would be available” .... so they can refuse to cover the purchase at their discretion no matter what they do. *Theoretically they could send me coral skeleton in a box and since I paid FF plus agreed to that DOA policy... I’m out 800 bucks with no recourse.... better luck next time!

 

[EMeyer]

Wow, that really is a crap policy. I think this story needs names (i.e., who's the vendor?)

 

[KGNickl]

You would not have me as a customer. Seller covers fees, not buyer. Simple as that. If you can't figure out how to include 3% I am happy to move on to someone who can.

Not trying to be mean, but every single coral I have ever sold included the fee in the price. It's my way of providing customer service, an attempt at offering buyers comfort with protection, and not nickel and diming a customer for 3% which ps pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's the cost of a frag Plug, a bad and some rubber bands.

I agree. For a vendor F&F is crazy to ask. I just give the option as an individual selling used stuff i have every so once in a while. I give both options cause some people are bent on saving a dime. And I usually try to sell my item for what I want + fees + exact shipping. Also, on this forum I price with fees since it’s the rules. But many other forums it’s not and I’ve sold stuff like this before I was a member on here. I can see the F&F and goods options both sides. But for a business they should never ask for F&F.

 

[K7BMG]

Paypal friends and family (or Venmo, same thing). It makes me mad because its so pointless.

3 freaking percent. Sellers cry over their lost 3%. THREE percent. Thats $3 on a $100 order. And for $3, they ask the buyer to revoke any kind of protection on their purchase?

I'm less offended by the fact that theyre asking me to give up buyer protection than I am the fact that they are doing this over THREE DOLLARS. The shipping materials required to properly ship corals cost much more than that. The shipping costs themselves will probably be twenty times more than that.

If this seller is crying so much over their lost THREE DOLLARS, what else are they doing to cut corners and save a few cents? Huge red flag.

And Ive never encountered it anywhere but R2R, but I'm sure it happens in any market with lots of individual sellers.

I understand what your saying.
In the end it is an accumulative issue for the vendor.

The other thing is that gets me is the sale would never happen if there were none of these accounts at all. Credit cards, PP, debit or whatever current service is out there today.
So to me its the cost of being in business and doing business, but they want these services for free.
If the 3% is to much then they should take only checks or cash.
See how many sales they will have then. Practically none, and then there will be no profit at all.

 

[ADAM]

Wow, that really is a crap policy. I think this story needs names (i.e., who's the vendor?)

They could be a hobbyist, kinda trying to portray themselves as business for credibility reasons. However diring ost of the questions and chit chat they referred to themselves as “we” and not “I”, if that makes sense.... I came across them thru IG.

I’ll copy the DOA policy they sent me. Maybe I’m reading it wrong but it seemed stranger to me each time I read it. I’ll add it to a separate post to follow this reply.

 

[ADAM]

The DOA policy, it feels a little more sleezy each time I read it.

Another thing that really errks me is when a “business” uses poor english/ grammar. You lose a lot of credibility IMO if you won’t put the effort to proofread your communications.

I had to edit due to poor grammar.... Karma is fast!!! Hahaha

 

[EMeyer]

LOL "Our DOA policy is no refunds" combined with the famous "if your coral arrives late all guarantees are void".

Either of those policies is enough for me to blacklist a seller forever. Both of them together? Its like they don't *want* to sell any corals.

 

[BighohoReef]

Paypal friends and family (or Venmo, same thing). It makes me mad because its so pointless.

3 freaking percent. Sellers cry over their lost 3%. THREE percent. Thats $3 on a $100 order. And for $3, they ask the buyer to revoke any kind of protection on their purchase?

I'm less offended by the fact that theyre asking me to give up buyer protection than I am the fact that they are doing this over THREE DOLLARS. The shipping materials required to properly ship corals cost much more than that. The shipping costs themselves will probably be twenty times more than that.

If this seller is crying so much over their lost THREE DOLLARS, what else are they doing to cut corners and save a few cents? Huge red flag.

And Ive never encountered it anywhere but R2R, but I'm sure it happens in any market with lots of individual sellers.

Well the good news is here on R2R asking for FF would go against the selling forum rules . I feel ya in this topic though folks need to include the fee in their selling price pretty easy way to solve a very simple problem. I also think it’s just good customer service, we can talk grey area all day... it’s really simple if your selling something you should stand behind your product regardless of whether it’s live, new or used... full disclosure of all details. No one wants hidden fees to show up after the fact...