moving sand in established tank

[Jvesche20]

I'm about to finish setting up my new tank. I want to wash my current sand and use it for my new tank. I'm going to end up converting corals and fish into the new tank. But I need to cycle my new tank because I'm using dry rock. Now my question is can I take the sand out of my old tank while its running and put it into my new tank? Or will this cause problems? I have SPS corals so I dont want to stress them out and kill them.

 

[brandon429]

washing sand to any degree doesn't de activate it; if you put that sand in a sand filter after rinsing and run it in a 10 g test tank set to 1 ppm ammonia, it'll still clear overnite. that means you can transfer that portion of the bioload. Im unclear on the rest of the descript, are you wanting to be able to skip cycle/set up the new tank instantly while the rock cures in the tank>>? sometimes, curing in tank is an algae nightmare though its not hard to build a skip cycle technique once we get all the clarity on whats moving over.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Will depend on how long your tank has been up and really what color your sand is. I(green, black etc with algae or sulfur) Can test with a small section.

take a cup full of sand see how things go. This small amount should not effect the tank and will let your know how much stuff is trapped in your sand.

 

[Jvesche20]

washing sand to any degree doesn't de activate it; if you put that sand in a sand filter after rinsing and run it in a 10 g test tank set to 1 ppm ammonia, it'll still clear overnite. that means you can transfer that portion of the bioload. Im unclear on the rest of the descript, are you wanting to be able to skip cycle/set up the new tank instantly while the rock cures in the tank>>? sometimes, curing in tank is an algae nightmare though its not hard to build a skip cycle technique once we get all the clarity on whats moving over.

I was planning on cycling again since I'm going to be using new rock. I do have a large portion in the sump decicated to LR in the sump. how would I be able to skip the cycle? I have probable 20 acros give or take a few. I have a purple tang, fox face, PBT, sailfin, diamond goby, 2 clowns, snowflake, 3 chromis, wrasse, mixed tang and 2 blennys. I want to add 2 more tangs when introducing these fish to the new tank.

What other info do you need?

Will depend on how long your tank has been up and really what color your sand is. I(green, black etc with algae or sulfur) Can test with a small section.

take a cup full of sand see how things go. This small amount should not effect the tank and will let your know how much stuff is trapped in your sand.

my tank currently has been up for 1.5 years. Sand is hawaii black sand. so If I take a thing of sand what should I be testing and how long should I keep it in a cup?

 

[brandon429]

gaining further clarity: if you strip down from live rock with a feed base established, to white rock with zero feed base and rinsed, transferred sand, are the acros likely to do well>? what about moving over your current LR that is feeding them? the filtration transfer is easy, its the feed sustenance portion we seem to be ripping away

 

[Jvesche20]

gaining further clarity: if you strip down from live rock with a feed base established, to white rock with zero feed base and rinsed, transferred sand, are the acros likely to do well>? what about moving over your current LR that is feeding them?

I didnt like my current rock scape. When I built it I just threw a bunch of random rock into the tank. I built a new scape that I really like. my current one is hard to keep a bunch of acros but this new one I built is made for acros. I can move over a good amount of LR into the sump until the load can hold up and slowly take some of the rock out of the sump. Does this make sense? Im not sure if im answering your question

 

[brandon429]

yes that starts to help for sure. Today I kicked up the sand rinse thread where we're usually doing some aspect of this same move. The running rules are that rinsing sand wont strip its ability to oxidize ammonia, and you can even instantly remove it and the existing rock handles all bioloading for fish etc without having to have ramp up time (they dont take on more bac, their current bac is excessive for the job)

so as we're distilling the final preps, if you are moving over most or all of your live rock that will make for a skip cycle transfer, even if you use no sand. Sandbed surface area and bacteria were once thought to be critical surface area/can't remove safely/has to be done in portions but we can now see thats just not the case. The only system we would have a concern or need extra planning is one where the current live rock can't be moved over

The new rock leaking phosphates or causing new algae farming headaches sounds expected, but you'll control its shape and expression now over time.

if you were to move sand without a thorough rinse, thats the cycle/mini cycle risk as various stages of rotting detritus would be moved over as well, and that risk varies tank to tank. Rinsing sand this clean is the only safe way to move it 100% consistent.


search out the sand rinse thread it shows so many pages of the event you can see how well we're controlling cycles (100%) with thorough pre rinsing. live rocks never get freshwater or tap clearly, they're rinsed in saltwater before the move so that they dont xfer over any detritus.

 

[Gareth elliott]

The cup was really to see what comes up while taking out. You could dump back after you have lifted it. But unnecessary now you explained more.

can you take one of your current rocks out and cycle with your new rock? Will act as a seed and a small food source, as when it changes environment there will be some minor die off.

 

[lapin]

My ipinion;
There might be stuff in your current sand that gets stirred up as you remove it. Since the tank is only 1 1/2 years old it is prob safe to disturb it, unless it is over 5" deep. That may cause your coral to hiccup.

 

[Jvesche20]

My ipinion;
There might be stuff in your current sand that gets stirred up as you remove it. Since the tank is only 1 1/2 years old it is prob safe to disturb it, unless it is over 5" deep. That may cause your coral to hiccup.

sand bed isnt 5 inch only 1-2 inches so should work fine

 

[Jvesche20]

yes that starts to help for sure. Today I kicked up the sand rinse thread where we're usually doing some aspect of this same move. The running rules are that rinsing sand wont strip its ability to oxidize ammonia, and you can even instantly remove it and the existing rock handles all bioloading for fish etc without having to have ramp up time (they dont take on more bac, their current bac is excessive for the job)

so as we're distilling the final preps, if you are moving over most or all of your live rock that will make for a skip cycle transfer, even if you use no sand. Sandbed surface area and bacteria were once thought to be critical surface area/can't remove safely/has to be done in portions but we can now see thats just not the case. The only system we would have a concern or need extra planning is one where the current live rock can't be moved over

The new rock leaking phosphates or causing new algae farming headaches sounds expected, but you'll control its shape and expression now over time.

if you were to move sand without a thorough rinse, thats the cycle/mini cycle risk as various stages of rotting detritus would be moved over as well, and that risk varies tank to tank. Rinsing sand this clean is the only safe way to move it 100% consistent.


search out the sand rinse thread it shows so many pages of the event you can see how well we're controlling cycles (100%) with thorough pre rinsing. live rocks never get freshwater or tap clearly, they're rinsed in saltwater before the move so that they dont xfer over any detritus.

Awesome so to clarify I can move all the live rock in my current tank into the sump of my new tank and i wont have to cycle? How long will it take for the dry rock to become established? I would like to eventually sell the rock down the road but if thats not something I should do then I wont.

I also need to rinse the sand. I have 120 lbs so Its going to take a while. How many lbs can I have in each 5 gallon bucket when washing? does it not matter? Hopefully the new rock doesnt leach phosphates it had a bleach bath. I see I need to rinse the current live rock in saltwater. I have 55 gallon tubs can I place the rock in the water and shake it or do i need to let it sit.

Last question is does the water matter? Can I make all new saltwater water or should I be using existing water?

 

[Jvesche20]

The cup was really to see what comes up while taking out. You could dump back after you have lifted it. But unnecessary now you explained more.

can you take one of your current rocks out and cycle with your new rock? Will act as a seed and a small food source, as when it changes environment there will be some minor die off.

I should put current Live rock and keep it in water with my new rock? I would love to do that but I dont know how its possible I cemented my scape already and the pieces are 2.5ft wide and 100lbs each. I dont have anywhere where I can keep it except in the new 220 tanks but it's outside. I gotta move it over. Going to be building the stand today or tomorrow. The last thing I need is to drill the tank and find a ghost overflow then everything is complete.

 

[brandon429]

all new water. so far the summary is perfect pls take pics so we can use it in our thread to track patterns. we are shaking the rock about in water, it can even be drawn off tank water. its just to eject any pent up waste from the pores on the bottom-sitting parts etc.

its handy to know that if you move all that live rock into the sump its a skip cycle setup, hard to imagine I know. we're basically ripping out/replacing or washing all the sand and it just doesnt matter, for pages we rip out sandbeds and not even put them back in the sand rinse thread. the rock has to instantly take over, and we're not losing animals which is how we're measuring success.

Even though its a long thread i recommend reading the specific jobs to see patterns that stand out, its worth it since this is your $ on the line. the summary above is reliable though, that you arent reducing the live rock at all is why its a skip cycle like how they set up all those reefs at a MACNA convention, or how we're moving reefs among homes without losses.

That much sand could be 4 hours rinse make it clean, use tap water like we do so you can rinse rinse x400

 

[brandon429]

if I could envision any strange dynamic with your approach, it would be that waste/urine is being produced by fish in the top part, but strictly the tiny plumbed input/output area of the sump is the ammonia eating part.

this is flow - based safety.

if you notice in work patterns, everyone puts the transferred rock in the dt, immediately where urine contacts it. if you had slow turnover, then it takes longer to pass waste from all those fish to the critical area before it swirls around mid tank a while. your turnover is an efficiency bottleneck here. fast turnover, safe

still, i cannot fathom how even a medium turnover could be risky, live rock is strictly ammonia hungry it eats it up Fast. set some of it up top just for that wierd variable. move it out later. bulk can be down low.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Jvesche20]

all new water. so far the summary is perfect pls take pics so we can use it in our thread to track patterns. we are shaking the rock about in water, it can even be drawn off tank water. its just to eject any pent up waste from the pores on the bottom-sitting parts etc.

its handy to know that if you move all that live rock into the sump its a skip cycle setup, hard to imagine I know. we're basically ripping out/replacing or washing all the sand and it just doesnt matter, for pages we rip out sandbeds and not even put them back in the sand rinse thread. the rock has to instantly take over, and we're not losing animals which is how we're measuring success.

Even though its a long thread i recommend reading the specific jobs to see patterns that stand out, its worth it since this is your $ on the line. the summary above is reliable though, that you arent reducing the live rock at all is why its a skip cycle like how they set up all those reefs at a MACNA convention, or how we're moving reefs among homes without losses.

That much sand could be 4 hours rinse make it clean, use tap water like we do so you can rinse rinse x400

Awesome do you want pics of the current tank or when I set up the existing tank? Do you have a link to the thread?

 

[Jvesche20]

Wait nvm just see you edited your post

 

[Jvesche20]

if I could envision any strange dynamic with your approach, it would be that waste/urine is being produced by fish in the top part, but strictly the tiny plumbed input/output area of the sump is the ammonia eating part.

this is flow - based safety.

if you notice in work patterns, everyone puts the transferred rock in the dt, immediately where urine contacts it. if you had slow turnover, then it takes longer to pass waste from all those fish to the critical area before it swirls around mid tank a while. your turnover is an efficiency bottleneck here. fast turnover, safe

still, i cannot fathom how even a medium turnover could be risky, live rock is strictly ammonia hungry it eats it up Fast. set some of it up top just for that wierd variable. move it out later. bulk can be down low.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

Gotcha. I just think it’ll look ugly with my current scape if I keep the live rock in the DT vs the sump. I plan on having a high turn over because I want a lot of flow for the massive skimmer I got and to help with the sps flow

 

[brandon429]

Oh I forgot to add, the new rock will take on bac from the system within 30 days.

Meaning you could take some out for testing, put it separate in a tank of 1ppm ammonia and it clears overnight. You could remove that safety cushion live rock back down after a month

This action you are doing is sand rinse which we've tested well, and skip cycle rock transfer, plus adding dry rock. You are retaining plenty of bac and the food web should transfer

*for sure ramp up lights in new tank like new LEDs, a week or more before any restoration of full power
Most would just resume full power on new tank, that's a bleaching risk

Very low intensity ramp up

We find this to be a critical move anticipation, light induced bleaching, and no corals bleach due to a temp drop in intensity. That's merely a cloudy couple weeks/ storm season in nature