Moving sand sleeping wrasses in quarantine

Ocelaris · May 31, 2017

So I'm attempting to do the tank transfer method with a Leopard wrasse and melanurus wrasse, but they've been hiding in the sand for the second transfer. I'm supposed to move everyone back tomorrow, but how do I move the sand dwelling wrasses if they're in a sand container? It seems like it would defeat the purpose of tank transfer if I moved the sand, and I don't want to disturb them while they're hiding?

Brew12 · May 31, 2017

Ocelaris said:
So I'm attempting to do the tank transfer method with a Leopard wrasse and melanurus wrasse, but they've been hiding in the sand for the second transfer. I'm supposed to move everyone back tomorrow, but how do I move the sand dwelling wrasses if they're in a sand container? It seems like it would defeat the purpose of tank transfer if I moved the sand, and I don't want to disturb them while they're hiding?

Unfortunately, you do need to get them out of the sand to do the transfer. Hopefully you can find a time when they are out to do it but you may need to gently encourage them to come out.

Brew12 · May 31, 2017

@4FordFamily can you offer any advice?

Ocelaris · May 31, 2017

Thanks, I found another thread where someone else dealt with the same issue, and I think my problem is that one tank is a 40 breeder and the other is a brute tub about the same size. The Leopard and melanurus were out for a day or so, and then have been buried for 2 days.

The solution in the other thread was chloroquine phosphate or copper, but my one conversation with the local vet went nowhere, and I've been afraid to do copper to date.

Maybe they'll be out tomorrow, but I guess I'll leave them until they're ready to come out and maybe start over without sand?

Brew12 · May 31, 2017

Ocelaris said:
Thanks, I found another thread where someone else dealt with the same issue, and I think my problem is that one tank is a 40 breeder and the other is a brute tub about the same size. The Leopard and melanurus were out for a day or so, and then have been buried for 2 days.

The solution in the other thread was chloroquine phosphate or copper, but my one conversation with the local vet went nowhere, and I've been afraid to do copper to date.

Maybe they'll be out tomorrow, but I guess I'll leave them until they're ready to come out and maybe start over without sand?

Sorry, I'm just not a wrasse guy. Maybe @melypr1985 can offer some advice.

One thing I do know is that you don't want to use CP with wrasses. Some of our members have had horrible results trying it.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/

Ocelaris · May 31, 2017

Thanks, yeah that's why I've never done copper. Honestly I'm tempted to toss the two sand dwellers into the display tank and pray. But I've been good about quarantine three rounds of fish and hate to throw that all away. I did add a very oversized uv to the display tank a few weeks ago. So tempting, but it's incredibly frustrating and expensive with water, meds and just plain nerve-wracking to take everyone through tank transfer.

Brew12 · May 31, 2017

Ocelaris said:
Thanks, yeah that's why I've never done copper. Honestly I'm tempted to toss the two sand dwellers into the display tank and pray. But I've been good about quarantine three rounds of fish and hate to throw that all away. I did add a very oversized uv to the display tank a few weeks ago. So tempting, but it's incredibly frustrating and expensive with water, meds and just plain nerve-wracking to take everyone through tank transfer.

I did TTM with my first ever fish and swore I would never do it again. Especially with Velvet being so rampant right now I much prefer copper. When treating with copper you have 2 options. Treat it for 10+ days and transfer the fish into a clean QT or treat them for 30 days and pull the copper from the system.

Areseebee · May 31, 2017

Are you sure they sleep all day? I had a wrasse that just seemed to be on a really strange schedule like pretty much only awake while I was at work.

Ocelaris · May 31, 2017

They might be awake during the day, but unfortunately I just changed jobs and can't be home during the day, so I'm just hitting one bad luck after another with this round of quarantine

Robink · May 31, 2017

Check with @evolved , he's the wrasse expert. Currently doing ttm with 2 wrasse also.

ngoodermuth · May 31, 2017

I did this with my leopard. I had to "wake" her up for one of the transfers. I slowly dumped her sand container out onto the floor of the tank until I uncovered her enough to coax her out with my finger. She wasn't terribly happy about it, but eventually went back to sleep in the new tank and was up like normal the next morning.

Ocelaris · May 31, 2017

Thanks, I'll give that a shot. Did you have to net her to get her into the other tank?

I think the best chance for this working is just to do copper. It looks like Chelated "copper safe" and the API test kit are the way to go for wrasses. I'll see if I can pick some up and get every back into the 40 breeder.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/#post-3049560

ngoodermuth · May 31, 2017

Ocelaris said:
Thanks, I'll give that a shot. Did you have to net her to get her into the other tank?

I think the best chance for this working is just to do copper. It looks like Chelated "copper safe" and the API test kit are the way to go for wrasses. I'll see if I can pick some up and get every back into the 40 breeder.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/#post-3049560

I just caught her by hand, I have better luck with my hand as they seem more spooked by the net than me lol

Fwiw, my leopard is in with the rest of my crew in copper. Cupramine actually. And, she's doing fine. Chelated is supposed to be even safer, so chances are you'll be fine using copper.

eatbreakfast · Jun 1, 2017

If your doing ttm then they will have to be taken out of the sand.

I have actually had pretty good experiences with copper and wrasses. Just increase the copper level slowly, over the course of 4 doses rather than 2, which is the directions on cuprimine.

Ocelaris · Jun 1, 2017

Thanks, I just ordered copper safe, so I'll just go that route going forward. Now I just have to deal with a rubripinnis which has become the bully to the rhomboid that started late to the game.

4FordFamily · Jun 1, 2017

I agree, to get them out I would gently stick fingers in the sand to gently poke then out. Coppersafe is probably your best bet if you go the copper route -- but the longer your fish are established before increasing dosage increases your odds. Leopards do pretty well in copper, other than very fragile leopards like kuiteri and choati. You should increase copper levels over a 1-1.5 week period.

melypr1985 · Jun 1, 2017

When I've QT'd leopards, I've done TTM. To get them out of the sand, I would gently run my fingers through the sand and scoop them out by hand and into the new tank with new sand. Worked fine. They weren't real happy about it, but they did fine.

Copper has worked fine for me with leopards as well.

evolved · Jun 1, 2017

melypr1985 said:
When I've QT'd leopards, I've done TTM. To get them out of the sand, I would gently run my fingers through the sand and scoop them out by hand and into the new tank with new sand. Worked fine. They weren't real happy about it, but they did fine.

Copper has worked fine for me with leopards as well.

+1

Ocelaris · Jun 4, 2017

Everyone was out on Saturday eating well, so I transferred everyone back up to the 40 breeder and will start copper tomorrow over the next week.

Any concerns with copper on really small Leopards or is it fairly equal reaction by body weight?