Multiple dwarf angles

[bigchungus]

So i am attempting to house 3 dwarf angles a flame, keyhole, bicolor i have a 5ft 110 gallon tank. The flame and keyhole was added at the same time no issues, i tried to add a smaller bi color about the same size as the flame but smaller than the keyhole. The keyhole immediately went after the bi color and tourmented for a while until i put the bi color in the acclimation box, once the keyhole calmed down a bit i released the bi color when the lights where off yesterday, today i have noticed the keyhole will still chase the bi but not nearly as bad as when first introduced, there is very little to no aggression from the flame to the bicolor. Point being is i am worried about the safetly of the bi color since it now has some nips on the tips of the rear fin's. The keyhole is almost certainly the cause. Point being is when should i give up and remove the bi color, or should i add more rock (i think that would help) to give more grazing room.
I have been in the hobby for about 4 years but never had multiple dwarfs. Should i give them more time with more rock and see what happens?

 

[bigchungus]

The picture of the bicolor did not go through well at all I apologize.

 

[argiBK]

I’ve found the best way to introduce dwarf angels is either all at once, or introduce the smallest first with each additional angel being slightly larger.

I used to have a Coral Beauty that was an absolute brute with new tank additions, even non-angels. The only way to ensure that he was kept in check was to ensure the new fish was larger. Otherwise, it would be 3-4 days of aggression/chasing/nipping before he would calm down and accept the new fish.

 

[mexi757]

I have a 6’ 125 with coral beauty. Has been in there for 3 years. Added flame angle couple months ago. Coral did give the flame hell for a week or so. But now they are good. So I’d say lil bit of time and aggression might happen. As long as there is enough space and hiding areas all should be good.

 

[bigchungus]

Thanks for all of the advice makes me feel a bit better

 

[Chee-tomorpha]

I have a 500L and have 5 dwarfs - 2x multibar, coral Beauty, flame, orange peel (latest addition). I plan on adding a few more. I want to try another flameback and then a golden, multicolor, and venustus.

This is all annecdotal but I usually get smaller ones then the current inhabitants. I introduce my new fish in an acclimation box hung next to the auto feeder. It serves two purposes. I can observe the condition of the new fish while easily target feeding them. I just throw a cube into the box. The new fish get first dibs and whatever is left falls through to the other fish.

Secondly, when the other fish come to eat, they come up and see the new additions but cannot contact them. I leave them in the acclimation box for a few days so I can ensure they are feeding and build enough energy to handle release day. Then about 3-5 days later I let them out to dance.

(Yes, I am rolling the dice with no QT)

There's always a pecking order shuffle but they fare pretty well. I have not lost a lot of fish this way. since my recent build became ready I've been adding fish. I did lose a flameback recently. I released it too early I think. I wasn't home to observe it either so by the time I got home from work on its second day out, it was exhausted and didn't make it.

I want to say the longer they stay in the box the better, but I also think they can get stressed being in there for too long too. So 3-5 days was a good balance.

Again all annecdotal.

 

[Pneumatic_Addict]

Give it a week. They need to figure out their pecking order. Fins will be nipped, but they’ll heal.

If it gets relentless, where she can’t even eat, that’s the time to pull. Other than that, let ‘er buck. Every time you pull a fish out, the clock resets.

 

[mokmok]

from my exp :
1. it's gonna be bad if you have only few 1-2 dominated angels and then release new one .. in that case they will be very aggressive toward new one but it will be easier once your DT already have amount of angels.

2. Acanthop / Flameback are not good choice for me to add first
( they're possibly super aggressive to new one )

3. just make sure your new dwarf angel is chubby and healthy enough before release to DT
and to have enough rock and hiding place .. that should be ok

my sequence =>
1. Bicolor x 2 ( now it's paired already )
2. Flame + Multicolor
3. Halfblack
4. Rock beauty
5. Regal
6. Multibar

 

[Tori]

I’ve found the best way to introduce dwarf angels is either all at once, or introduce the smallest first with each additional angel being slightly larger.

I used to have a Coral Beauty that was an absolute brute with new tank additions, even non-angels. The only way to ensure that he was kept in check was to ensure the new fish was larger. Otherwise, it would be 3-4 days of aggression/chasing/nipping before he would calm down and accept the new fish.

I'm up to 7 dwarf angels and I use a similar method of trying to make sure any new addition is a little bit larger than the established angels. For the two Multicolors I just added, I wanted one to be bigger than my other angels and the other to be on the smaller side. I also used two separate acclimation boxes and after a day in the acclimation boxes, I lowered them so they could swim in and out freely but made sure to leave them in the tank for a few days, which I think helped because they came out, got beat up and went back inside the boxes. The other fish weren't comfortable enough with the boxes to follow them back there. I didn't get any video of the boxes in use but here's one of the tank overall and a photo of the acclimate boxes in use.

 

[LaloJ]

I'm up to 7 dwarf angels and I use a similar method of trying to make sure any new addition is a little bit larger than the established angels. For the two Multicolors I just added, I wanted one to be bigger than my other angels and the other to be on the smaller side. I also used two separate acclimation boxes and after a day in the acclimation boxes, I lowered them so they could swim in and out freely but made sure to leave them in the tank for a few days, which I think helped because they came out, got beat up and went back inside the boxes. The other fish weren't comfortable enough with the boxes to follow them back there. I didn't get any video of the boxes in use but here's one of the tank overall and a photo of the acclimate boxes in use.

Awesome tank and I love your fish in general, using your acclimation boxes did you have any significant aggression problems when you started adding more angelfish to your system? And if so, how did you solve it?

 

[Tori]

Awesome tank and I love your fish in general, using your acclimation boxes did you have any significant aggression problems when you started adding more angelfish to your system? And if so, how did you solve it?

Thanks! I would say I've definitely seen significant aggression. It's starts out with the established fish trying to kill the new fish, or at least looking like they are, and then it dies down quickly after they establish a new pecking order. This is all anecdotal since it's just from my limited experience. I hadn't added any new fish in about a year before this last time so everyone seemed extra upset about it. I'm actually kind of surprised how quickly things went back to being peaceful.

 

[LaloJ]

Thanks! I would say I've definitely seen significant aggression. It's starts out with the established fish trying to kill the new fish, or at least looking like they are, and then it dies down quickly after they establish a new pecking order. This is all anecdotal since it's just from my limited experience. I hadn't added any new fish in about a year before this last time so everyone seemed extra upset about it. I'm actually kind of surprised how quickly things went back to being peaceful.

Reading your anecdote also surprises me, but it's good that it was nothing more than a wild welcome, I'm thinking of putting some angelfishes with butterflies but I want to go calmly given the delicacy of the latter and how easy they get stressed, I must have a plan if the welcomes become a problem of permanent aggressiveness.

 

[Devaji]

from my exp :
1. it's gonna be bad if you have only few 1-2 dominated angels and then release new one .. in that case they will be very aggressive toward new one but it will be easier once your DT already have amount of angels.

2. Acanthop / Flameback are not good choice for me to add first
( they're possibly super aggressive to new one )

3. just make sure your new dwarf angel is chubby and healthy enough before release to DT
and to have enough rock and hiding place .. that should be ok

my sequence =>
1. Bicolor x 2 ( now it's paired already )
2. Flame + Multicolor
3. Halfblack
4. Rock beauty
5. Regal
6. Multibar

swadee ka my friend I know this is an older thread. but I am wondering if the dwarfs ever mess with your regal angel?
how are they with the LPS?

 

[jft]

I have a Half black angel, two coral beauties and Bicolor angel and a singapore in 125 . They all eat like little pigs and often swim together in my 125. Very little aggression and lots of rockwork with caves to hang out. good luck!

 

[Devaji]

I have a Half black angel, two coral beauties and Bicolor angel and a singapore in 125 . They all eat like little pigs and often swim together in my 125. Very little aggression and lots of rockwork with caves to hang out. good luck!

that sounds like a nice tank. the more I look in to this I am finding more people that are doing it. how long have yours been together?

 

[jft]

that sounds like a nice tank. the more I look in to this I am finding more people that are doing it. how long have yours been together?

2 months

 

[Zionas]

@Tori There’s been far less research and interest in mixing angels than there has been in mixing Tangs. There was a time when every other thread went like “how many Tangs can I fit into X sized tank”, “will X combination of Tangs work out”. There hasn’t been nearly the attention given to mixing Angels, so from your experience I suspect it’s more doable than what a lot of common wisdom says.

Also, I do feel maybe there’s a bit of merit to the idea that the more the merrier? As in, there isn’t an excess amount of attention placed on one or a few fish, or maybe it’s just simply the fact that dwarf angels if lucky are actually capable of playing nice with each other.

I don’t know if you’ve seen the tanks of @copps but in his old 180, albeit larger than your tank, he was able to keep several species as pairs or harems.

I think he had:
Multi-Bar (x2)

Colin’s (x2)- He said the Colin’s male was actually dominant over the Multi-Bar male despite Colini supposedly needing an extremely quiet tank to thrive, his were also wild caught.

Joculator (x2)

Flame (x3)

Fisher’s (x1)

For large angels he had a pair of Red Sea Regals and a pair of Lamarck’s which replaced the Semifasciatus pair because the Semis weren’t liking high 70s temperatures.

 

[Zionas]

@jft Looks like a nice tank you got there. Which ones tend to be dominant, if there’s any hierarchy between your Centropyge?

 

[mokmok]

swadee ka my friend I know this is an older thread. but I am wondering if the dwarfs ever mess with your regal angel?
how are they with the LPS?

Sawasdee krub

so far no issue between my regal and dwarfs

"how are they with the LPS?"
=> IMO , they can go pretty well with Euphyllia but not so good with others

Dec-2021 my baby regal with dwarf friends

 

[Zionas]

@mokmok You think Regal and Rock Beauty will be moved to your 180 FOWLR tank later? Having FOWLR and a reef is really cool. What about your dwarfs they will be staying in the 90 gallon?