Multiple fish deaths

[Teeran88]

My husband and I set up a new tank and he decided he wanted to run the tank in hypo for 30 days to treat for ich (we hadn't had an outbreak in quite a while but know some of our fish were carriers and want to start off with an ich free tank) we also purchased a few new fish and did not quarantine as we figured they'd be going through a prophylactic treatment anyway. A few days into dropping salinity, my flame wrasse started acting strangely; always at the bottom of the tank, breathing hard, but oddly enough darting out as soon as food is added to the tank. Then straight back to laying on the sand bed.
Next, my possum wrasse was seen laying on the sand bed not looking well, I believe he died but haven't been able to confirm. Then I came home from work to see my mckoskers dead and one of my bellus angels didn't look well. She was extremely pale and had obviously been picked on as top of her tail was kind of chewed up (normally my bellus are the top of the pecking order) and then she was gone the next morning. Now I woke up to my bluethroat and crescent tail wrasses dead, neither of which had shown any indication of stress or sickness. As I'm looking in the tank, I just noticed some white spotching on my red tail flasher. Is it possible we have introduced velvet to the tank with the new fish and are just suppressing the symptoms through the hypo? Or is there any reason hypo treatment would be doing this to my fish?! Readings are all good, no ammonia, low nitrate, salinity holding steady at 1.009 with ATO, and no major swings in ph averaging at 8.05
Please help!

 

[Teeran88]

 

[Gil03]

I'd say you're stressing out already stressed out fish with the hypo if indeed you have a current ich problem. My advice would be to get the fish out into a temporary tank and research up on copper dosing. I myself don't use copper but when it comes to ich I've had great success with a product called Medic by Polyp Lab. Some will claim snake oil but it has worked the last 3 times i've used it in conjunction with a good diet, I'll also mention to pay particular attention to the instructions..not in the sense you'll kill everything if you don't but it doesn't work as well outside the directions. You can dose it to your tank, well sump ideally and it's completely reef safe.

IMO your chances of successfully ridding your tank of ich with hypo while all your fish remain in there is slim, especially if you have tangs.

 

[Humblefish]

Velvet is everywhere right now, so it is certainly a possibility: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Also, hypo resistant strains of ich are known to exist.

 

[Teeran88]

I'd say you're stressing out already stressed out fish with the hypo if indeed you have a current ich problem. My advice would be to get the fish out into a temporary tank and research up on copper dosing. I myself don't use copper but when it comes to ich I've had great success with a product called Medic by Polyp Lab. Some will claim snake oil but it has worked the last 3 times i've used it in conjunction with a good diet, I'll also mention to pay particular attention to the instructions..not in the sense you'll kill everything if you don't but it doesn't work as well outside the directions. You can dose it to your tank, well sump ideally and it's completely reef safe.

IMO your chances of successfully ridding your tank of ich with hypo while all your fish remain in there is slim, especially if you have tangs.

All fish of my fish had been healthy and showing no signs of ich. (I just know they are carriers because they had had outbreaks in the past in stressful situations). And they are showing no signs of ich currently. Also all have had great appetites and no signs of stress except for the bellus and the flame (who acts strangely from time to time anyway). The hypo was supposed to be a prophylactic treatment, which I absolutely would not do with copper (have used in the past in extreme emergencies), that's even more stressful if not absolutely necessary and shortens the lifespan of the fish. Also, I believe I recall angels being particularly sensitive to copper. And unfortunately I don't necessarily trust anything to cure ich that isn't one of the three proven methods (copper, hypo, ttm)

 

[Teeran88]

Velvet is everywhere right now, so it is certainly a possibility: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Also, hypo resistant strains of ich are known to exist.

I'm just very confused because I'm really not seeing clear symptoms of anything on theses fish, especially the last two wrasses that just dropped dead. No flashing, scratching, heavy breathing...they ate like pigs. I'm kind of paralyzed with indecision right now on what course of action to take.

 

[Humblefish]

I'm just very confused because I'm really not seeing clear symptoms of anything on theses fish, especially the last two wrasses that just dropped dead. No flashing, scratching, heavy breathing...they ate like pigs. I'm kind of paralyzed with indecision right now on what course of action to take.

How long has the tank been setup? You said it was a new tank.

Also, what size tank is it and how many fish were in the aquarium when all the die-off started happening?

 

[Gil03]

All fish of my fish had been healthy and showing no signs of ich. (I just know they are carriers because they had had outbreaks in the past in stressful situations). And they are showing no signs of ich currently. Also all have had great appetites and no signs of stress except for the bellus and the flame (who acts strangely from time to time anyway). The hypo was supposed to be a prophylactic treatment, which I absolutely would not do with copper (have used in the past in extreme emergencies), that's even more stressful if not absolutely necessary and shortens the lifespan of the fish. Also, I believe I recall angels being particularly sensitive to copper. And unfortunately I don't necessarily trust anything to cure ich that isn't one of the three proven methods (copper, hypo, ttm)

If all your fish were fine and showing no signs of stress or ich then I would've left well enough alone, doing the hypo despite your fish being fine is foreign to me. I'd put more emphasis on keeping your fish well fed on a good diet then attempting to keep your tank ich free when your fish show no signs of it affecting them.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Yes... very possible that velvet came in on the new guys and is only being suppressed by the hypo :/ I would probably go ahead with the emergency treatment protocol on post #2 using the link humble posted.

How many new fish did you add?

 

[Teeran88]

How long has the tank been setup? You said it was a new tank.

Also, what size tank is it and how many fish were in the aquarium when all the die-off started happening?

It's about a month post cycle.
300gal, I moved over most fish from an established 180gal system that's still set up adjacent to it going fallow with coral.

Two clowns and a chromis went in first,
12 fairy/flashers and 1 anthias,
Rabbitfish,
Last; three 3"-5" tangs

They went in in that order over approximately 2-3 weeks
Started dropping salinity a couple days after introducing tangs. Salinity was down by last Saturday. Flame started acting strangely almost immediately, and no change in him (good or bad) since. First death was on this Friday with no prior indication of illness

 

[aykwm]

From what I know some tried hypo for ich and it didnt work out for them. It might be velvet, i had velvet wipeout and few fishes only saw symptoms, rest were healthy and active.
Also did you acclimate the nee fish for hypo?

I really think its velvet.

 

[Peanut]

Get a UV Sterilizer and say goodbye to Ich forever. The cost is nothing next to the time, effort and aggravation of dealing with it in your display tank. I wont run a tank without one.

 

[aykwm]

It is a solution to manage ich but not eradicate it. Although if running uv, you need really slow flow, probably 5-8 times lower than the recommended for it to be benefitial. Although i still dont believe its a good way to manage ich because for large tank you need a really large uv system and most ich will be present on fish or drop of to sand or rock. Ofcourse i wont debate this topic over here, its been debated a lot and many threads discuss it.

 

[Humblefish]

A tank move can often "awaken" a disease which has been latent. Probably because a move uproots a fish from their environment. This takes away their "comfort zone", which stresses them and thus lowers the immune system. My best guess at this point is you have velvet in your DT.

This is exactly why I don't practice disease management any longer. Relying upon a UV, garlic, herbal remedies, etc. is just a crutch waiting to sweep out from under your feet. An extended power loss or moving a tank is stressful enough, without having to worry about "Will ich come back?"

 

[Teeran88]

It is a solution to manage ich but not eradicate it. Although if running uv, you need really slow flow, probably 5-8 times lower than the recommended for it to be benefitial. Although i still dont believe its a good way to manage ich because for large tank you need a really large uv system and most ich will be present on fish or drop of to sand or rock. Ofcourse i wont debate this topic over here, its been debated a lot and many threads discuss it.

And I 100% agree with you. Our other dt is absolutely ich free because we were vigilant in our qt procedures. We should absolutely know better than to try to cut corners and not qt the new fish for other unknown issues.

 

[Teeran88]

A tank move can often "awaken" a disease which has been latent. Probably because a move uproots a fish from their environment. This takes away their "comfort zone", which stresses them and thus lowers the immune system. My best guess at this point is you have velvet in your DT.

This is exactly why I don't practice disease management any longer. Relying upon a UV, garlic, herbal remedies, etc. is just a crutch waiting to sweep out from under your feet. An extended power loss or moving a tank is stressful enough, without having to worry about "Will ich come back?"

Oh I know, which is why we've implemented strict quarantining procedures for all new fish, coral, cuc for the past 3yrs (unfortunately the original tank, a Craigslist find, must have come with ich and it would lie dormant until a stressor was introduced to the tank). The main reason for the new tank build was to put everyone through prophylactic hypo as we wanted to add "ich magnet" acanthurus and also don't believe in ich management. Our #1 mistake was to try to cut corners and add new fish without quarantining for other issues. I'm hitting my head against a wall right now.

 

[Peanut]

It is a solution to manage ich but not eradicate it. Although if running uv, you need really slow flow, probably 5-8 times lower than the recommended for it to be benefitial. Although i still dont believe its a good way to manage ich because for large tank you need a really large uv system and most ich will be present on fish or drop of to sand or rock. Ofcourse i wont debate this topic over here, its been debated a lot and many threads discuss it.

If you think that then just get a bigger uv.... think what you will, I just offer the fact that I've been in the hobby almost 30 years and the only times I have ever gotten ich was when I didn't have a uv running. I'm not saying its the only reason, but I believe its huge.

 

[4FordFamily]

Get a UV Sterilizer and say goodbye to Ich forever. The cost is nothing next to the time, effort and aggravation of dealing with it in your display tank. I wont run a tank without one.

If only this were true

 

[4FordFamily]

A tank move can often "awaken" a disease which has been latent. Probably because a move uproots a fish from their environment. This takes away their "comfort zone", which stresses them and thus lowers the immune system. My best guess at this point is you have velvet in your DT.

This is exactly why I don't practice disease management any longer. Relying upon a UV, garlic, herbal remedies, etc. is just a crutch waiting to sweep out from under your feet. An extended power loss or moving a tank is stressful enough, without having to worry about "Will ich come back?"

This.

 

[melypr1985]

A tank move can often "awaken" a disease which has been latent. Probably because a move uproots a fish from their environment. This takes away their "comfort zone", which stresses them and thus lowers the immune system. My best guess at this point is you have velvet in your DT.

This is exactly why I don't practice disease management any longer. Relying upon a UV, garlic, herbal remedies, etc. is just a crutch waiting to sweep out from under your feet. An extended power loss or moving a tank is stressful enough, without having to worry about "Will ich come back?"

exactly.