multiple heater setup

gasperagnes

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Hello Everyone,

I am having a difficult time figuring out what I need for (2) heater setups for my 180-gallon reef tank. I currently have (1) 600-watt BRS heater hooked up directly to my Apex EB32 which i have heard is not ideal. Therefore I am looking for some redundancy. Any guidance on what is needed for my setup would be greatly appreciated.
 
It all depends on how much redundancy you'd like. Considering your current setup, I'd probably add this to your setup as your primary heater and connect it to your EB832 as well.


Then I'd configure your Apex as follows (leave the Helio set to the default 78°F):

Heater_1 Outlet (original 600-watt heater plugged into the EB832 outlet)
Fallback OFF
If Tmp <77.0 Then ON
If Tmp >79.5 Then OFF

Heater_2 Outlet (Helio controller plugged into a separate EB832 outlet)
Fallback ON
If Tmp <77.5 Then ON
If Tmp >79.0 Then OFF

The Helio will be the primary heating setup and control the temperature. The Apex will only get involved to turn the Helio off if there's some kind of malfunction. In the event there's a continual issue with the Helio controller, the Apex will step in and activate the secondary (redundant) heater. You can also configure an alarm to email or otherwise notify you if there's an issue as well.

base_email Outlet
Set OFF
If Output <Heater_1> = ON then ON
If Output <Heater_2> = OFF Then ON
 
It all depends on how much redundancy you'd like. Considering your current setup, I'd probably add this to your setup as your primary heater and connect it to your EB832 as well.


Then I'd configure your Apex as follows (leave the Helio set to the default 78°F):

Heater_1 Outlet (original 600-watt heater plugged into the EB832 outlet)
Fallback OFF
If Tmp <77.0 Then ON
If Tmp >79.5 Then OFF

Heater_2 Outlet (Helio controller plugged into a separate EB832 outlet)
Fallback ON
If Tmp <77.5 Then ON
If Tmp >79.0 Then OFF

The Helio will be the primary heating setup and control the temperature. The Apex will only get involved to turn the Helio off if there's some kind of malfunction. In the event there's a continual issue with the Helio controller, the Apex will step in and activate the secondary (redundant) heater. You can also configure an alarm to email or otherwise notify you if there's an issue as well.

base_email Outlet
Set OFF
If Output <Heater_1> = ON then ON
If Output <Heater_2> = OFF Then ON
@blaxsun two quick questions because I really like this idea

First, would you size the heaters so that neither one could heat the tank entirely on its own to avoid overheating the tank? For example maybe each heater is sized for 80% of the tank volume.

Second, on Heater 2 that’s being run by the Helio do I really need a Temp<77.5 ON command?
 
@blaxsun two quick questions because I really like this idea

First, would you size the heaters so that neither one could heat the tank entirely on its own to avoid overheating the tank? For example maybe each heater is sized for 80% of the tank volume.

Second, on Heater 2 that’s being run by the Helio do I really need a Temp<77.5 ON command?
this programming isnt working for me. I am sure its something that I am doing wrong... the secondary heater comes on when I turn on Auto.
 
First, would you size the heaters so that neither one could heat the tank entirely on its own to avoid overheating the tank? For example maybe each heater is sized for 80% of the tank volume.

You want to be able to run the tank normally off the Helio so you need to size it for 100% of your tank volume. The original heater (600W) is a backup that should only get used if the Helio has failed.

As mentioned, you should set an alarm to basically get notified if the backup EVER kicks on. In theory that heater can be a little undersized as you mostly use it to buy you time to respond to the problem (fix Helios or get a new primary heater). If you it will take you a while to respond or bring in a replacement, then you would want that backup to be sized fully.
 
You want to be able to run the tank normally off the Helio so you need to size it for 100% of your tank volume. The original heater (600W) is a backup that should only get used if the Helio has failed.

As mentioned, you should set an alarm to basically get notified if the backup EVER kicks on. In theory that heater can be a little undersized as you mostly use it to buy you time to respond to the problem (fix Helios or get a new primary heater). If you it will take you a while to respond or bring in a replacement, then you would want that backup to be sized fully.
Thanks for your thoughts. I always thought about getting two heaters sized for about 75% and leaving one “always on” (basically opposite of your idea for Heater 1) and the second Heater 2 would be controlled by the Helio.
 
@blaxsun two quick questions because I really like this idea

First, would you size the heaters so that neither one could heat the tank entirely on its own to avoid overheating the tank? For example maybe each heater is sized for 80% of the tank volume.

Second, on Heater 2 that’s being run by the Helio do I really need a Temp<77.5 ON command?
No - I'd ensure that either heater is more than adequate to heat the tank on its own. The larger the heater - the more efficient energy usage.

Yes, it's a fail-safe for the Helio (just in case).
 
No - I'd ensure that either heater is more than adequate to heat the tank on its own. The larger the heater - the more efficient energy usage.

Yes, it's a fail-safe for the Helio (just in case).
If you do it this way couldn’t I always leave one in a standby mode?

Okay. So for example, the Helio heater is the main heater for the tank, and let’s say the target temp is 78. The second one (connected directly to the Apex) is programmed so it only turns on if the Temp < 74 (Helio not heating) and turns off if Temp > 82?
 
I run two heaters directly off my Apex (no secondary controller), they are staggered as main and auxiliary, see code below. They are sized so that one alone can just keep up with the need. This way if either one falls in either the on of off state the tank temp will change slowly allowing time to react. As a secondary fail safe the heaters built in thermostats are set just above Apex. And my cooling fans can over power one heater on alone.

Main code

Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 77.8 Then ON
If Tmp > 78.0 Then OFF
Defer 000:30 Then ON
Defer 000:30 Then OFF

Aux code

Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 77.5 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.8 Then OFF
Defer 000:30 Then ON
Defer 000:30 Then OFF
 
I also have heard that it isn’t wise to run them off an EB832. I have the same BRS heater as well as a different heating element (brand escapes me). I admit I’m running mine off an EB832.

Mine are set to the exact same programming but one is off. If I get a low temp error I can just flip them over. I know this could be programmed but I’m lazy.

As for the idea that one heater is only capable of say 80% so if one gets stuck “on” you’re good, that’s less of a likely scenario using heating elements tied to the same (Neptune) temp probe. If the probe falls out of the tank, they’ll both still run and you’ll have 100+ gallons of gumbo in your home. I have never heard of an EB832 failing in the “on” position. On mine the 24v failed but the ports worked fine IIRC.

An idea is to use one heater with a built in thermostat. Calibrate and get it dialed in. Plug it into a WI-FI plug independent of the Apex and leave it off. Then run the other heater off the Apex as normal and if there’s a low temp issue, use the Wi-Fi plug to remotely activate the other heater. This creates a redundancy outside the Apex which cures issues with connectivity, software, failed hardware, etc.

I think personally my plan is to use two heaters but each capable of heating the tank. Then putting an Apex temp sensor in the DT in the overflow and one in the sump in case one craps out. I also suggest a water level sensor glued to your temp sensor…yes glued. If the Temp sensor is in air, the optical sensor will be too and flip and turn off the heater (fingers crossed). I think with the Apex this is the biggest concern- the temp sensor slipping out of the water or malfunctioning.

As for not using the EB832. I can’t actually find one off the shelf but there is a device that is either 24v or 12v that sits between a wall outlet and 120v plug. When it is energized, it energizes the outlet.

AutoAqua makes one so you can use your own pump with their ATO. I used it for 4 years and I still own it. Very reliable although not running 600w, 8x a day. Tunze makes one for their Osmolator that has bare wiring which looks beefier. Hypothetically you could use it with a 24v Neptune Apex port as well. I have the AutoAqua in hand and the Tunze version is on its way this week and I can check the voltage if you like. Even if it’s 12v, you can get a buck converter from Amazon to drop 24v to 12v for around $10 and they have been incredibly reliable and are easy to hook up. So you’d have a heater plugged into a non-Apex wall receptacle but controlled by the Apex. The 24v ports don’t get stuck on.
 
I
It all depends on how much redundancy you'd like. Considering your current setup, I'd probably add this to your setup as your primary heater and connect it to your EB832 as well.


Then I'd configure your Apex as follows (leave the Helio set to the default 78°F):

Heater_1 Outlet (original 600-watt heater plugged into the EB832 outlet)
Fallback OFF
If Tmp <77.0 Then ON
If Tmp >79.5 Then OFF

Heater_2 Outlet (Helio controller plugged into a separate EB832 outlet)
Fallback ON
If Tmp <77.5 Then ON
If Tmp >79.0 Then OFF

The Helio will be the primary heating setup and control the temperature. The Apex will only get involved to turn the Helio off if there's some kind of malfunction. In the event there's a continual issue with the Helio controller, the Apex will step in and activate the secondary (redundant) heater. You can also configure an alarm to email or otherwise notify you if there's an issue as well.

base_email Outlet
Set OFF
If Output <Heater_1> = ON then ON
If Output <Heater_2> = OFF Then ON
Is the heater controller necessary to do this? Or can I just get a titanium element? I have a hydros system I'm about to set up but need to upgrade heaters.
 
Hello Everyone,

I am having a difficult time figuring out what I need for (2) heater setups for my 180-gallon reef tank. I currently have (1) 600-watt BRS heater hooked up directly to my Apex EB32 which i have heard is not ideal. Therefore I am looking for some redundancy. Any guidance on what is needed for my setup would be greatly appreciated.
75g + 20g + 20g sump.
77 deg target temp
150 watt eheim heater in sump, always on
200 watt eheim heater in 75g inkbird controlled, does most of the switching
150 watt eheim in sump, controlled by apex to come on if cold ambient or more watts needed.
The eheim thermostats are set for 80 for failsafe.
 
I

Is the heater controller necessary to do this? Or can I just get a titanium element? I have a hydros system I'm about to set up but need to upgrade heaters.
Be wary of Hydros. I have an apex on my main tank and a hydros on my 2 small tanks with the expensive powerstrip.

I wouldn’t use a heating element with it. Get a heater with a built in thermostat. Set it 1 degree higher than the controller as a backup.

Hydros is immature, unreliable, and makes Neptune look like it was engineered by German clock makers.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%

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