Multiple of same species lionfish

[drmantistoboggan]

Not sure if this is the right place to put this but I wanted to know if I can keep two of the same species of lionfish together. For example, two antennata lionfish . I see lots of posts with people mixing different species but didn’t know if two of the same species would be ok. @lion king was hoping maybe you could answer?

 

[lion king]

Tank size will play a big role. If you are able to get male/female pairs it will work. While volitans seem to play well together in larger tanks, the medium and dwarf species do seem to have angst between same sexes, and males more so than females.

Sexing is possible but very difficult and subjective, and you wont have as many to choose from, not like a tank of a dozen volitans.

All lions would have to be at a mature age before sexing, at least 4.5" if not 5" for the medium bodied. Fuzzies can be definitely sex by the number of rings on their pectoral fins. Others if many have been observed, you can tell the males from a larger more square head, longer pectoral fins, and an overall larger broader body.

As all lions are people too, they are individual and it may work or not, you may just get lucky and pull a male/female pair. As long as you have a back up tank or plan, the angst usually accelerates rather than just a blitz attack and one ends up dead. I have even had cross species males throw angst at each other, but same species can end very badly. I would recommend at least a 90g tank.

Also: Juveniles will play better, but keep an eye as they mature. The angst begin as they mature, adults my not be as playful.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

Thank you! Sounds like I’ll stick to the one for now. It’s an 80 gallon tank, about 65 display and 15 in the sump.

Tank size will play a big role. If you are able to get male/female pairs it will work. While volitans seem to play well together in larger tanks, the medium and dwarf species do seem to have angst between same sexes, and males more so than females.

Sexing is possible but very difficult and subjective, and you wont have as many to choose from, not like a tank of a dozen volitans.

All lions would have to be at a mature age before sexing, at least 4.5" if not 5" for the medium bodied. Fuzzies can be definitely sex by the number of rings on their pectoral fins. Others if many have been observed, you can tell the males from a larger more square head, longer pectoral fins, and an overall larger broader body.

As all lions are people too, they are individual and it may work or not, you may just get lucky and pull a male/female pair. As long as you have a back up tank or plan, the angst usually accelerates rather than just a blitz attack and one ends up dead. I have even had cross species males throw angst at each other, but same species can end very badly. I would recommend at least a 90g tank.

Thank you! I’ll stick to the one for now. It’s an 80 gallon tank. About 65 display and 15 in the sump.

One more question for you. I don’t have a proper QT and I’ve read these guys often come in with internal parasites and may not accept frozen. I typically run my fish through a round of focus, metro and kanaplex when they first arrive. Have you ever used focus metro and kana pellets, fed the pellets ghost shrimp or a live food source and then immediately fed that to a lion to get the medication in them?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Tank size is essential as is the mixture to be able to share the same diet
Its pretty much unheard of with lions squabbling amongst themselves as they’re pretty laid back you obviously don’t want ti mix a large volitan with a fuzzy dwarf

 

[lion king]

Thank you! Sounds like I’ll stick to the one for now. It’s an 80 gallon tank, about 65 display and 15 in the sump.

Thank you! I’ll stick to the one for now. It’s an 80 gallon tank. About 65 display and 15 in the sump.

One more question for you. I don’t have a proper QT and I’ve read these guys often come in with internal parasites and may not accept frozen. I typically run my fish through a round of focus, metro and kanaplex when they first arrive. Have you ever used focus metro and kana pellets, fed the pellets ghost shrimp or a live food source and then immediately fed that to a lion to get the medication in them?

I really don't recommend using antibiotics like kanaplex or others, I have seen premature death usage and observed severe liver damage. In a case of life or death with a bacterial infection, then of course use an antibiotic, but really not a good idea as a prophylactic treatment.

They will almost always come in eating live food only, so without a proper observation/qt, you would need a display you could feed live food, ghost shrimp and appropriate sized mollies recommended. There is no guarantee to get them convrerted to an adaquate dead diet, chances are for long term success tbey will routinely need live foods.

Treated or very close observation must be made for internal parasites. General cure in the water column is the best method. Relying on them to eat dead foods to get meds will likely not happen.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

Ok,

I really don't recommend using antibiotics like kanaplex or others, I have seen premature death usage and observed severe liver damage. In a case of life or death with a bacterial infection, then of course use an antibiotic, but really not a good idea as a prophylactic treatment.

They will almost always come in eating live food only, so without a proper observation/qt, you would need a display you could feed live food, ghost shrimp and appropriate sized mollies recommended. There is no guarantee to get them convrerted to an adaquate dead diet, chances are for long term success tbey will routinely need live foods.

Treated or very close observation must be made for internal parasites. General cure in the water column is the best method. Relying on them to eat dead foods to get meds will likely not happen.

Sounds like you recommend general cure even without any sign of a parasite. Thank you for all the help!

 

[lion king]

Ok,
Sounds like you recommend general cure even without any sign of a parasite. Thank you for all the help!

If they eat right away and continually eat well; if you are very, very good at observation, you may risk not treating. But you should be prepared to treat right away if they show signs of internal parasites; like stringy poo, faded color, lethargy; or if they go off eating.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

If they eat right away and continually eat well; if you are very, very good at observation, you may risk not treating. But you should be prepared to treat right away if they show signs of internal parasites; like stringy poo, faded color, lethargy; or if they go off eating.

Sorry for all the questions, appreciate you taking the time.
When you say right away, how quickly do you mean? I’m used to some fish not eating a few days after transportation due to stress. Is this expected with lions or is it unusual?
Also for API general cure, is this harmful to my clean up crew (snails and hermits)?

 

[lion king]

Sorry for all the questions, appreciate you taking the time.
When you say right away, how quickly do you mean? I’m used to some fish not eating a few days after transportation due to stress. Is this expected with lions or is it unusual?
Also for API general cure, is this harmful to my clean up crew (snails and hermits)?

When I say right away, I have dropped ghosties in the bag while floating, and a healthy lion will eat them right in the bag. Most times these guys are literally starving, may not have eaten since being collected. You put them in the tank, drop food in right away, a healthy lion will literally eat before the ghosties hit the floor. If beaten up and stressed the food should still have eaten overnight. If not I start treatment. You'll have to check the safety of general cure on your inverts.

 

[lion king]

Many of these type of fish are also fed dead, dying, diseased fish along the way. So more times than not they will need to be treated for internal parasites. Sometimes the smaller ones escape, because they will get live brine shrimp, if they are lucky.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

Many of these type of fish are also fed dead, dying, diseased fish along the way. So more times than not they will need to be treated for internal parasites. Sometimes the smaller ones escape, because they will get live brine shrimp, if they are lucky.

I’ll have to figure out a way to treat with the inverts in the tank then. Do you recommend any particular places for purchase? I’ve ordered the antennata through my LFS but I noticed LiveAquaria now has antennata and zebra dwarfs in stock.

 

[lion king]

I’ll have to figure out a way to treat with the inverts in the tank then. Do you recommend any particular places for purchase? I’ve ordered the antennata through my LFS but I noticed LiveAquaria now has antennata and zebra dwarfs in stock.

I personally have never had luck with live aquaria on anything. But today it's hard to find any lions, look at the prices of the volitans. If possible ordering from your lfs and picking them up while still in the bag is best bet.

Acclimation is also key, if possible, match sg. Your tank can be lower but not higher. I do about an hour of water exchange to also get the ph matched. If your sg in the tank is substantially higher, an even longer acclimation may be advised. This is a good rule for all fish.

 

[lion king]

I’ll have to figure out a way to treat with the inverts in the tank then. Do you recommend any particular places for purchase? I’ve ordered the antennata through my LFS but I noticed LiveAquaria now has antennata and zebra dwarfs in stock.

I just got 2 of the healthiest lions from my lfs. They got them from Quality Marine. That is the same distributor that LiveAquaria uses. Some people have had good luck with LA.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

I just got 2 of the healthiest lions from my lfs. They got them from Quality Marine. That is the same distributor that LiveAquaria uses. Some people have had good luck with LA.

I have one coming in today. Probably from the same vendor. I’ll update you if I pick it up today. I’m trying to see if I can get the shop to run him through the api treatment before I pick up so I know it doesn’t have parasites

 

[drmantistoboggan]

I just got 2 of the healthiest lions from my lfs. They got them from Quality Marine. That is the same distributor that LiveAquaria uses. Some people have had good luck with LA.

Lfs wasn’t able to get them in. Found another LFS that does a two week quarantine. May order through them instead.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

I just got 2 of the healthiest lions from my lfs. They got them from Quality Marine. That is the same distributor that LiveAquaria uses. Some people have had good luck with LA.

One more question. When you’re ordering, do large specimens of zebra dwarf and fuzzy dwarf so better than smaller ones? Or does it not matter?

 

[lion king]

One more question. When you’re ordering, do large specimens of zebra dwarf and fuzzy dwarf so better than smaller ones? Or does it not matter?

Things to consider, I do like them no larger than 4", I even like raising the itty bittys less than 2 ". The itty bittys are challenging to get food small enough, and in the beginning need more frequent meals. Larger ones sometimes dont acclimate as well to captive living, while smaller ones may develop the puppy dog personality over time. Larger ones almost always come in with internal parasites as they are more likely to have been fed dead, dying, and diseased fish.

As far as qt goes, 2 weeks does not give you 100%, even after treatment sometimes parasites can be stubborn. A lion can come in eating and seem fine for 2-3 weeks for developing questionable symptoms, like stopping eating, faded color or cloudy eyes. Then last more than a week up to a couple of weeks before dying. A qt needs to be for at least 4 weeks, whether just observation, or treatment. I have had stubborn parasites not clear after treatment, and needed to retreat.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

Things to consider, I do like them no larger than 4", I even like raising the itty bittys less than 2 ". The itty bittys are challenging to get food small enough, and in the beginning need more frequent meals. Larger ones sometimes dont acclimate as well to captive living, while smaller ones may develop the puppy dog personality over time. Larger ones almost always come in with internal parasites as they are more likely to have been fed dead, dying, and diseased fish.

As far as qt goes, 2 weeks does not give you 100%, even after treatment sometimes parasites can be stubborn. A lion can come in eating and seem fine for 2-3 weeks for developing questionable symptoms, like stopping eating, faded color or cloudy eyes. Then last more than a week up to a couple of weeks before dying. A qt needs to be for at least 4 weeks, whether just observation, or treatment. I have had stubborn parasites not clear after treatment, and needed to retreat.

Man, more complicated than I thought. Thank you for all the information. I’m going to actual do an order through live aquaria. They have zebra dwarfs and fuzzy dwarfs in various sizes. Is there a combination of 2 or 3 you recommend and the size you’d try to get. I have an 80 gallon tank

 

[lion king]

I make it complicated because I try to give you as much info as I can to help you have success. Keeping lions long term is a difficult proposition, they have an extremely high mortality rate.

A zebra and a fuzzy can live happily in a 80G. The 2 I just got from the same supplier were listed as large, and they are the perfect size. I would stick with one each as I explained about the male angst. Why many will say there is no problem is because most have never kept kept long enough to get to maturity. That;s true for many species, juvi's are alot different than adults in temperament. I had male fuzzies and male zebra's tussle, but as I explained, not as vehemently as 2 male fuzzies or 2 male zebra's going after each other. If you get to a point and you feel confident with your lion care, you could add a fu manchu to the mix as your third. They are a bit more challenging to keep. If you keep them long enough to be mature and full grown, zebra's and fuzzies will get to 7", that's alot of fish in a 80g.

 

[drmantistoboggan]

I make it complicated because I try to give you as much info as I can to help you have success. Keeping lions long term is a difficult proposition, they have an extremely high mortality rate.

A zebra and a fuzzy can live happily in a 80G. The 2 I just got from the same supplier were listed as large, and they are the perfect size. I would stick with one each as I explained about the male angst. Why many will say there is no problem is because most have never kept kept long enough to get to maturity. That;s true for many species, juvi's are alot different than adults in temperament. I had male fuzzies and male zebra's tussle, but as I explained, not as vehemently as 2 male fuzzies or 2 male zebra's going after each other. If you get to a point and you feel confident with your lion care, you could add a fu manchu to the mix as your third. They are a bit more challenging to keep. If you keep them long enough to be mature and full grown, zebra's and fuzzies will get to 7", that's alot of fish in a 80g.

Thank you again, I appreciate all the info and your input is extremely valuable. I ordered 1 of each of their “large”. Let me know if you run into any issues with yours but mine should come Tuesday.