My 75 gallon reef

[Screwgunner]

Aluminum foil will work just fine. If you really want to get rid of it Dr. Tims wasteaway look up dinos and dr tims there is a regiment to follow . It works.

 

[Fishy888]

Good to know. I was reading about Dr. Tim's wasteaway early this morning but I wasn't sure how well it would work. So far it sounds like the best dino exterminator yet. Thank you.

 

[Fishy888]

When I went to check the tank this morning I saw a noticeable decrease of dinos on the sand. Until I can get some Dr. Tims I will continue running the lights less and dosing vinegar. The water is still clear. Tomorrow I will start dosing twice daily.

My frags of GSP have no polyps out yet but my original colony has probably 10 or so out. The frags still are bright purple so that is a good thing.

 

[Fishy888]

I accidentally put that I checked the morning but I slept until 3:30 this afternoon. Head colds will do that to a person lol.

I turned the lights off about 7:45 tonight. A couple of observations:

1. The amount of dinos increased during the photoperiod. If there were any doubts before there are none now, at least in my mind, that they are dinos and not cyano. I don't know how I didn't realize what they were long before now.

2. Though the dinos on the sand increased they are not as dense or as widespread as they were last night. I also noticed patches on the rock where they appear to have thinned out. I suppose the hermits might have eaten some but I doubt it. I guess I should have taken pics. I'll definitely take some tomorrow.

3. I have a feeling that my 3 snails died from consuming dinos as well as from lack of green algae.

At lights out my original GSP colony had 10 polyps out. The two frags did not. One frag has a bunch of stolons so I expect polyps on that frag first. The second is devoid of stolons. Both are a healthy bright purple.

The animals are doing well. I did a quick head count of hermits and I counted 7. I didn't look in the cave area or behind the rockwork so I think it safe to say there are still 10 left.

 

[Fishy888]

I was going to mention have you confirmed it's actually cyano bit I'm sure you said you starter a thread on the cyano so thought had it confirmed ummmm

I looked to see if I started a thread on cyano tonight but I didn't see one. As much as I mentioned it in this thread though you could almost say I started a thread on cyano. I am 99.9% sure these are dinos at this point. I'm going to try Screwgunner's suggestion. I want as much diversity in this tank as I can get. That includes good bacteria. I'm normally wary of remedies such as this. Since the Dr. Tims is not going to merely mask the problem if used properly and since I haven't seen anyone report any problems I am going to try it. It will be a few weeks before I can get it but once I do it's game on!

 

[Fishy888]

I just scored a broken flat-screen TV. That means free acrylic. It also means I am only some PVC, a bulkhead, and an appropriate pump away from having an ATS. Ok there is some elbow grease involved but what is a little work between friends?

I have some plastic mesh I need to rough up soon and a plastic trash can I need to clean out and sterilize. After I cut windows into the sides of the trash can I will cut the acrylic with 2 inch margins all the way around. I'll epoxy the acrylic over the cutouts in the trash can. I'll then drill a hole near the bottom for the bulkhead (though I'll skip the bulkhead until I have the sump plumbed and running as it will be run independently until then). I am going to make the scrubber a bit oversized. That way if I feed heavily I'll still have low nutrients.

 

[ying yang]

I looked to see if I started a thread on cyano tonight but I didn't see one. As much as I mentioned it in this thread though you could almost say I started a thread on cyano. I am 99.9% sure these are dinos at this point. I'm going to try Screwgunner's suggestion. I want as much diversity in this tank as I can get. That includes good bacteria. I'm normally wary of remedies such as this. Since the Dr. Tims is not going to merely mask the problem if used properly and since I haven't seen anyone report any problems I am going to try it. It will be a few weeks before I can get it but once I do it's game on!

Yeah I briefly looked last night after I said it and couldn't find one either,I think in post 92 where you said you " posted about cyano" often" I've took this as outside this build thread of yours so my mistake .
I've never dealt with dinos so wouldn't be able to give you any recomendations that you can't find yourself on r2r or Google so good luck with them.
I'm hoping I don't ever get them as some say they go away on their own and alot say if use chemicals to get rid of the dinos then end up with other problem algaes after but guess tank needs some kind of algae so idk

 

[ying yang]

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

Here a dino Id thread by taricha if can get your hands on a cheap microscope that does the job.
Good luck

 

[Fishy888]

I do intend to get one. In fact I started looking for microscopes after Screwgunner said they looked like dinos. That made me research them. All the credible articles and videos I've read and seen recommended getting a microscope to ID what strain/strains I have. I've found fairly basic scopes meant for kids in the $40 range. I've also found digital scopes in that range but I don't know how good they are yet. It's something I'll look into later today. I might have to pony up some extra bucks to get a decent microscope. If a more basic scope would work just as well for viewing microscopic flora and fauna as a higher end scope then I will stick to the cheaper scope. Thank you for the link. I'll check it out soon.

 

[Fishy888]

This morning around 7:00 I dosed 1/2 teaspoon of vinegar. I decided to leave sugar out of the equation until I get these dinos under control. I am going to start taking pictures of the sand bed in the spot with the most dinos. It looks a bit better when the lights come on of course. By lights out it will look worse. As a result I will take pictures when the lights come on and when the lights are about to go off. This way I'll be able to tell if I'm making progress. I also hope this might help others who find themselves in my situation.

I had to re-glue the larger GSP frag about an hour ago. I shook the rubble piece to get some debris off of frag and it came right off. Once I glued the frag the rubble piece broke so I had to glue it back to the piece of rubble. Both frags look good although the frag with no stolons is starting to get algae on it but only a little. The mother colony is doing well. There are 18 polyps out. Thankfully it hasn't been attracting dinos as much as it was for a while now.

My xenia are coming back big time. Its polyps are almost their normal size and the stalks have grown slightly.

The cabbage leathers are looking good. They are opening all the way even though there is no polyp extension on either one yet. It could be that since the polyps were not coming out they digested themselves. There could be polyp extension but they're not visible to the naked eye.

Thankfully the fish and inverts are unfazed by the vinegar dosing. There's no cloudiness. If anything the water column appears clearer. I will dose another half teaspoon in a couple of hours.

The rock that holds the mother GSP colony is losing its dinos and green algae is taking over. There are other rocks that are getting some green algae as well.

I know that many believe that low phosphates and nitrates are what causes dinos in the first place. I have a hard time believing that though since I am using tap water and I feed frozen food a few times a week. I even stuff whole shrimp in shells and leave it for the inverts and fish to pick at. Usually I leave it in there for 6 hours but I have left it as long as 12 hours. Unless our tap water contains no phosphates and nitrates which I highly doubt, there has to be a plethora of both in my system.

I have read that instability can cause dinos. That is what I believe caused them. On the other hand the green algae hasn't grown much at all and the corals seem to be doing well. Much of the sand bed looks good also. I suppose that it's possible I have lower nutrients than I think. I hope to get some test kits sometime in the spring but I need a RO/DI system and a refractometer first. After that I'll invest in test kits.

 

[Fishy888]

I took some pictures of the dino situation tonight for comparison. The first one is from just after lights on. The second is from just before lights off. The third is a full tank shot.

 

[Fishy888]

Quick comparison between yesterday afternoon and this afternoon.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Diatom not dino
D

 

[Fishy888]

My camera is not the best but it has long strings. The rock especially is covered in dinos. That said it might just be diatoms in that corner but the "algae" on the rocks is much darker brown. I took a picture just now of the rock in question.

 

[Fishy888]

Tonight I noticed a bacterial film is developing on the glass. It looks like there is condensation on the glass. I am still dosing 1/2 teaspoon in the morning and In the evening. Hopefully soon the bacteria will out compete the dinos or at least help. Even if it looks like it's working I am going to add Dr. Tims waste away with bacteria so that the dinos can never dominate again.

I stuffed a shell with shrimp tonight and put it in the tank. I'm leaving it in overnight. This way my hermits, shrimps, and maybe even my worms and amphipods get to eat it under the cover of darkness. I also want to see if the nutrient levels come up enough to allow the green algae to get better established. I still don't think I have low nutrient levels but if I do this should help. I don't want out of control green algae but if I had to choose right now I would choose the green algae. At least if the green algae is GHA it would provide shelter for copepods and maybe amphipods.

Speaking of GHA I got that TV apart just to find out there was no acrylic screen protector. If worst comes to worst I'll just buy some acrylic. I also have some glass panels somewhere that I might be able to use but I don't know if they are large enough. I'll measure them tomorrow and see.

There are times I wonder if I should run the scrubber independently so that I could use it as a refugium. Pods could breed in there all day long. Then again it is another pump to buy and it would be another overflow box and return that could potentially flood the place if snails or other creatures got in it. I am going to stick to the 15 x 10 screen.

As for the lights I know they are strong especially since they can't be dimmed. They are Viparspectra 300W lights (165W actual). They have a pinkish hue. I am hoping they will work. These lights are 250W metal halide equivalents according to Viparspectra. I know that real 250W halides, about 8 inches from the part of HOB filters where the water reenters the system, have grown turf algae well. That is about how close either light will be to the screen.

Right now I have the trash can filled part way with a 50/50 solution of vinegar and water. Tomorrow I will clean it really well. If I have time I will cut out the slots for the section of pipe that waters the algae screen as well as the windows for the acrylic (or glass).

The mother colony of GSP is doing well. The same 18 polyps were out today but they are growing quickly. The 2 frags are a bright purple color still but no polyps yet.

The cabbage leathers look good. I am looking forward to seeing polyps out on them again.

My larger xenia colony is making new polyps again. My second one has been growing rapidly since I moved it a couple weeks ago.

Both fish and inverts alike are doing well. The shrimp are starting to come out more in the daytime since I feed the tank in the mornings and evenings. The fish have come to learn that there is food in my hand often enough that they give me a minute or two before they start biting. If I have food I am golden but if after the grace period is up they don't detect food they get to biting. The hermits were all over the shell with shrimp in it. It amazes me how sensitive to taste/smell they are.

 

[Fishy888]

It looks like the dinos on the rockwork is thinning out and green is taking its place. The vinegar dosing seems to be working against the dinoflagellates. I still have a ways to go though.

I am keeping the vinegar dosing just like it is. I dosed the tank several hours ago. In the morning I'll dose another 1/2 teaspoon of vinegar. I am seeing a slight cloudiness now. If all goes well there won't be anymore cloudiness than there already is. The glass has a white bacterial film as well. If it starts gettinga to where fish, inverts, and corals are stressed I will cut it back to 1/4 teaspoon.

The corals are doing good today. My GSP had 20 polyps out though the frags have none. The cabbage leathers look good and it looked like a tiny polyp was out on the smaller of the 2. The larger xenia colony looks much better than it did after the cleaning with peroxide.

All the animals are doing good. They ate half a shrimp. I had it in the tank for about a day. The only reason they stopped was because they pulled the shrimp all the way out of the shell and it floated to a circulation pump.

 

[Fishy888]

I decided to add sugar back to my dosing regimen. I will dose it at 1/2 teaspoon once daily and keep vinegar at twice daily for a while.

It seems like the dinos are thinning out on the rocks forming the cave area but are thickening on the rocks my 2 xenia colonies are on. I have some patches of REAL (red) cyano growing on the glass. There is a decent amount of green algae on the glass too. Sadly all this is on the front glass. I have allowed it to grow because I have read and heard that cleaning the glass makes the dinos worse. Hopefully letting it grow will tip the balance towards green algae; maybe even toward the cyano which is more desirable than the dinos. It's time for ol' Dino to go back to Bedrock and leave my tank alone and everyone else's too.

There were 22 polyps out on my mother GSP colony. The new buds which I count as polyps have grown quickly. From being small brown bumps to having distinguishable white centers and tentacles has taken them about 4 to 7 days. I took a picture tonight where they should be easier to spot. The frags got moved today because I had them near where the majority of blowing sand was. Even though it takes a few days now the circulation pumps carve out an area a few inches from where the frags were. That made the frags turn on their sides a bit. The smaller frag came particularly close to being buried. As a result the frags are now nestled in between the xenia colonies.

Although there are dinos where the frags are it isn't so bad in that area. As for the rock with the smaller xenia colony I will take it out tomorrow along with the larger xenia colony and clean them. The GSP haven't been attracting as much algae as they usually do since I resumed vinegar dosing. The GSP frags have some algae but I'll clean them tomorrow also.

It looks like my algae scrubber is going to be built into the sump or into either a 5 gallon bucket or a sterlite tote. The trash can I wanted to use originally has a pinhole sized leak somewhere because when I went to scrub the inside I found the 2 gallons of vinegar/water mix on the floor. The inside of the trash can was bone dry. I am going to use a 45 gallon tall as my sump. I want room for at least a calcium reactor and the second emperor 400 to run GAC and/or purigen (in an emergency) in the sump. If I can build the scrubber into its own unit and have the scrubbed water exit from there into the sump that would be awesome. I'll have to rethink lighting but that's fine. I might be able to use the grow lights but I am going to research some other options too. I might even DIY some lighting.

Besides the picture of the GSP I took pictures of my xenia colonies as well as pictures of the green algae and cyano on the front glass. I am seriously considering cleaning the front glass since there is more green algae than anything else there. My biggest concern is causing more instability right now. I'll re-research that topic tonight. Hopefully I can clean my front glass and not cause more harm than good in the process.

 

[Fishy888]

Tonight I saw that my smaller frag of GSP got eaten a bit. It is still purple but not as purple as it was. Hopefully it will heal and develop polyps but I doubt it at this point. The larger frag hasn't been touched thankfully. In fact it looks like a polyp is trying to extend but it hasn't yet. The mother colony is doing great compared to a month ago. There were 22 polyps out today including the budding polyps. While there is some algae on the mat it isn't bad. The vinegar dosing is helping I do believe.

Speaking of vinegar I dosed my vinegar/sugar for tonight. I will dose vinegar only in the morning but both in the evening. I am glad I dosed the sugar as well now. That white, stringy bacteria is growing on the glass. The water is a bit cloudy now also. For now that's ok. I just want to make sure oxygen does not become an issue. As long as things go well over the next several days I will add the 1/2 teaspoon of sugar in the morning as well. That will likely be the limit though. I don't want to get carried away and the dosing is just part of my battle plan against the dinos. The endgame will come when I can get Dr. Tims Waste Away with beneficial bacteria. I am also considering purchasing some Purple Helix coralline. I'll need to check out others' experiences with it. If my nutrients really are low then I would think coralline would take over if there in enough concentration.

Update

The smaller GSP frag wasn't eaten after all. What I saw was a corner of the mat that came unglued. I'll fix it later today. The mat is still a healthy purple. The "grayish white" I saw was because of the glue attached to the part of the mat that came unglued. That is a relief. I also see what look like new polyps that are developing on the larger frag. I hope to see that one begin opening within the next few days.

 

[Fishy888]

I noticed something interesting yesterday evening. When I started dosing sugar once a day I noticed a decent bit of cloudiness. It would linger for the whole day although it would be slightly clearer. When I dosed sugar last night it never really got any cloudier. In fact it cleared up quite a bit. That may change though since I decided to give the sugar twice a day as well as the vinegar.

The only reasons I can come up with is that either the bacteria are nutrient limited now or the corals are eating the bacteria. If the bacteria in my system are in fact nutrient limited then I am not sure how bacteria were growing in the first place so I am still skeptical about the idea that I have low nutrients. That said I will feed some frozen food tomorrow and see if that changes things. I do have more areas of cyano now on the glass than I have had this whole time. It also looks like the green algae is becoming more dense on the glass but is about the same on the rocks as it has been. As far as the corals eating the bacteria I am not so sure but then again the xenia are growing like weeds and my GSP are looking better than they have in a long time so I suppose its possible the corals ate enough bacteria to clear up the tank most of the way.

I am thinking about cleaning the front glass soon. I know it may well lead to more dinos but the algae is so unsightly. Then again since the green algae is mainly on the front I am hoping it will settle elsewhere and outmuscle the dinos and/or get eaten by the corals.

 

[Fishy888]

I think the dosing is starting to eliminate the dinos. They are thinning a bit on the glass. Holes in the dinos on the front glass started a week or so ago but they seem to be bigger now and more numerous.

I just dosed tonight's dose ov vinegar and sugar. I thought I was only using 1/2 of a teaspoon of each but it turns out I have been using a teaspoon of each. I was measuring it lately in a cap from an orange juice bottle thinking that if I filled it halfway it would be 1/2 teaspoon. It turns out I dosed 1 teaspoon of each. I will keep the dose there since the tank is almost clear now.

I am going to clean the glass and the rock tonight. I will need to do at least a small water change. I'm also thinking about dosing hydrogen peroxide. I will use the typical 3% peroxide most stores carry. I've got a bit more research to do though because I want to make sure the peroxide won't kill good bacteria, pods, etc. I know that corals and fish will be safe.