My Centropyge acanthops harem, African Flameback Dwarf Angel

[OrionN]

It’s a lagoon style tank, lots of space. The only other stock in there is a very tiny pair of clowns about 1”

IMO, only my opinion, your rock structure is not the best for Dwarf Angels. Not enough opening where they can swim in and out and. This structure.

 

[PicassoClown04]

IMO, only my opinion, your rock structure is not the best for Dwarf Angels. Not enough opening where they can swim in and out and. This structure.

Yeah... made the mistake of allowing a non-reefer to scape the tank. I’ve taken out rocks since then but like 60% of this structure was rubble. I have to re-scape the tank to have more arches and caves but you think the size is okay?

 

[OrionN]

It is hard to say. I keep a Flame Angel pair in this tank and when they do their spawn dance the tank was too small for it. When they spawn the Malle swim in semicircular arch, display his colorS and fins to court the female. It is too small for Flame so I took them home to my 320. I am hoping that mine is OK for Flameback.
In your tank your fish will be fine living in there but when they do courting dances, they may be limited by tank wall. That may may not be a big problem. All depends on your preferences.

 

[OrionN]

Flameback Angels are dimorphic. Here are pictures of my Female and Male African Flame back. The shape of the anal fin is clearly different and the orange is less at the end of the male dorsal fin.
Male, pointed anal fin and darker dorsal fin

Female, rounded anal fin and more orange dorsal fin

 

[Variant]

@OrionN what are you experiences with dwarf angel and clams/sps?

 

[OrionN]

I keep a lots of animals. I love clams and had a lot of them. All species. I love angels and always have some harem of angels. Most of the time Flame angels but I keep Majestic Angels and Regal Angles. I keep a lot of corals including SPS.
I don’t have as much experiences with SPS as the SPS specialists but regarding Clams and Anemones I have as much as anybody (IMO)

 

[Jeffcb]

Ok. So I good this Bubble Gum Monster Chalice and Snoopy the Flameback began eating it.

Removed to fug. Thought I would try something else cheap and added this acro or whatever it is. He won't touch that. He only like expensive Bubble gum. Go figure.

 

[OrionN]

I took some better pictures of my Flameback Angels. These pictures really show the dimorphism of this species. There are colors and fin shape differences between Male and Female. All three were put in as juveniles. The largest, thus most dominant one, change quickly and clearly is the Male of the harem at this time.
It only take him about 2-3 weeks to change sex. The color differences is easy, a glance is all that is needed. The shape of the anal fin is slightly harder in picture, because this can be seen when the fins are fully extended. These guys are so active, that it is easy to tell when look in person, but photographs it is difficult. I have to use fast autofocus and multiple exposure to catch the fish just right.
Male

Female

 

[homer1475]

Is it really that easy to sex them? Color extension of the dorsal fin an whether the anal fin is round or pointed?

I have what I beleive to be is an african flame back male(quite the d*ck to be honest). Would love to get a female for him. I see these in the LFS all the time now, and if it's really that easy to sex them, I would love to get a female.

Great looking trio FWIW!

 

[OrionN]

Is it really that easy to sex them? Color extension of the dorsal fin an whether the anal fin is round or pointed?

I have what I beleive to be is an african flame back male(quite the d*ck to be honest). Would love to get a female for him. I see these in the LFS all the time now, and if it's really that easy to sex them, I would love to get a female.

Great looking trio FWIW!

They are feisty fish. Very active and beautiful. They do need a large tank. While they chase each other, they never seem to cause any injury. No torn or nipped fins evidence with he three angels in my 65 gal. I have a small Tomini Tang in with this harem. I plan to add a Ocellaris pair to this tank and that is the extend of fish in this aquarium, with he possible exception of a of small shrimp goby pair and their shrimp.

 

[homer1475]

Yeah I have an 80G cube with plenty of rock with caves/overghangs/tunnels.etc. for them to swim in and out of.

The flameback is my only "large" fish as the rest of the gang is just small wrasses(8 to be honest). So if your keeping a harem in a 60, I think 2 in an 80 would be fine.

Thanks for the info. Next time I'm in an LFS I will be on the lookout for a female.

 

[OrionN]

I love the 100's feather duster in the tank. I think I must add a CBB to the tank to handle the Aptasia. This will eliminate the feather duster for sure. Maybe a CBB instead of the Shrimp Goby. I need a permanent solution for the Aptasia.

 

[OrionN]

The three angels was placed in my tank as juveniles. Sex change occurred quickly and the largest become visible male as early as 2-3 weeks. However, I was visiting a friend of mine who have had a Flameback in his tank for a long time, 2.5 years. This fish was at least 1.5 time the size of my largest fish.
Looking at that fish I can tell right away that is is still a female, due to the slight yellow/orange edge of the anal fin, and very thin border of blue at the back of the dorsal fin, and due to the round shape of the end of the anal fin.
My initial observation is that apparently Flameback angel do not change to male unless it is stimulate to change sex by other, smaller angels.

BTW, according to fishbase, bidirectional sex change observed with Centropyge acanthops. I am sure, like other dwarf angels, there is a lot of sparing and fighting happened before the looser change sex to female.

I have questions for all reefers who keep Flameback Angels:
How long have you have your Flameback angel(s) in your tank?
How many Flameback angel do you have in your tank?
What is the sex of your Flameback angel(s)?
As far as you can determine, what was the sex of your Flameback angel(s) when you first put him/her into our tank?
What was the estimated size of the angel(s) when you first put him/her into your tank?
What is the size of this angel(s) now?

 

[Variant]

I keep a lots of animals. I love clams and had a lot of them. All species. I love angels and always have some harem of angels. Most of the time Flame angels but I keep Majestic Angels and Regal Angles. I keep a lot of corals including SPS.
I don’t have as much experiences with SPS as the SPS specialists but regarding Clams and Anemones I have as much as anybody (IMO)

I think I may have misworded my question

I wanted to know whether your angels both the current ones and those you had in the past had issues nipping at your sps and clams over time. If not, what do you think contributed to the good behavior?

 

[OrionN]

I think I may have misworded my question

I wanted to know whether your angels both the current ones and those you had in the past had issues nipping at your sps and clams over time. If not, what do you think contributed to the good behavior?

I don't have problem with my Regals, Flames or Flamebacks, or Cherubs. I had problem with one of two Majestic and 1/1 midnight dwarf angels. Both have to be remove within a day.
When I said no problem, meaning nothing got kill by the angels. I and my coral tolerate occasional peck here and there.

 

[OrionN]

After 6-7 weeks, I find that I don't like the Flameback Angel as much as the Flame Angels. Flameback are more aggressive. The male is forever chase the females, he Females are also forever quarrel with each other. Don't get me wrong, none ever go a blow landed, so there is no wound what so ever on the body of the fish, no torn fin or anything like that. However, It does not seem like the tank is at peace. I like a tranquil tank, and it is not with a harem of Flameback.
I will give this 6-12 months but it it continue like this I will likely remove two of the three angels.

 

[pcon]

I found that xiphypops had more conspecific aggression than other angels I tried to pair. tried for a harem of yellow tails and they quickly picked each other off. I had high hopes for your attempt given your success with flames, hopefully they settle down with some more time.

 

[OrionN]

I found that xiphypops had more conspecific aggression than other angels I tried to pair. tried for a harem of yellow tails and they quickly picked each other off. I had high hopes for your attempt given your success with flames, hopefully they settle down with some more time.

I have a harem alright. clearly 1 male and 2 females. All three fish are thriving fat and disease free. I think they even started to spawn already. I seen the typical male courting swim of the male this last week. I will video this this or next week when I have some time. However, I am normally don't stay in my office late enough to see the actual spawn. The office clean up crew normally does not leave and turnout the light until after 9 PM.
While I am successful in forming a harem, they are more aggressive then the Centropyge. I don't think that Xiphypops is an accepted for this clade of dwarf angels yet. Fishbase still have them as Centropyge acanthops, not Xiphypops acanthops.

 

[pcon]

I have a harem alright. clearly 1 male and 2 females. All three fish are thriving fat and disease free. I think they even started to spawn already. I seen the typical male courting swim of the male this last week. I will video this this or next week when I have some time. However, I am normally don't stay in my office late enough to see the actual spawn. The office clean up crew normally does not leave and turnout the light until after 9 PM.
While I am successful in forming a harem, they are more aggressive then the Centropyge.

That’s awesome! Hopefully with some more time the aggression will die down. I found even when just pairing pigmys they were more aggressive at first but generally improved with time.

I don't think that Xiphypops is an accepted for this clade of dwarf angels yet. Fishbase still have them as Centropyge acanthops, not Xiphypops acanthops.

Fish base is not an authoritative source for taxonomic information. Though not accepted yet at the genetic level the morphological and genetic features exist separating xiphypops from other centropyge at the sub genera level are widely accepted. Though not yet accepted at the genera level recent research supports its elevation.

Redirecting

doi.org

 

[Flameback Pair]

@OrionN about what size in inches should the pygmy and flameback species be but together before they start to change sex permanently? But not too small that they go down the grates in the overflow?