My Clowns are sick

[AIFlores]

So about a week ago I noticed my clowns had white spots on them. From the research I did I felt as if it was Ick. I quarantined both fish and started them on an Ick treatment. A couple days pass and I don't notice any difference in the spots. I ask around and the response was that it could be the Brook. Last night I gave them a fw dip for about three minutes for temporary relief until I could get my hands on some treatment for the brook. This morning both clowns looked so much better and seemed more alert. I get home from work this afternoon and find one of my clowns is missing its tail and has a craterlike spot close to its face. What is killing my clown? I only have the two clown.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Did you notice any aggression between the clowns? What ich treatment did you administer? Why do you think it was brook? What are your current water parameters? Any additional information would be helpful, even if you can post some past photos.

 

[dphan2007]

Ouch. He's definitely getting attacked

 

[AIFlores]

Did you notice any aggression between the clowns? What ich treatment did you administer? Why do you think it was brook? What are your current water parameters? Any additional information would be helpful, even if you past photos.

Both clowns have been getting along fine from what i have seen. I haven't seen them attack eachother at all. They paired up and wouldn't leave eachothers side until recently when I quarantined them. Since they've been quarantined they have been staying on opposite ends of the tank. I used the super ick treatment by api, it was the only thing I could get my hands on without having to wait. I thought maybe it could be Brook be uase the spots seemed to be surrounded with a sheet of white substance. Parameters are currently unstable. I started them in a 10 gallon tank. When I saw the spots I bought a 20 gallon to use as a new display so that i could use the 10G to treat them in without having to stress them out by putting them in another tank. I took the rocks and substrate out and transferred them to the the 20gallon which caused the parameters to become unstable in the 10. I added some fluval biological booster to help with the ammonia. That was last night after checking the ammonia and finding it at 8. I also turned the heat up to 80 in the Gallon and have slowly let the salinity rise to 1.026.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

There is a lot going on there. Looks like some sort of aggression issue. Unfortunately the medications you administered won't eradicate either brook or ich and now a possible bacterial infection. The water parameters are a huge factor in this as well. The fish are stressed from the ammonia spike to heating and salinity changes. What medications do you have on hand? Have you confirmed brook or ich, maybe post some photos?

 

[Karen00]

I'm so sorry to hear of your situation. I just want to chime in regarding your transfer of the rock and substrate to the 20g. I think that can also transfer the pathogen to the new tank unless you're going to leave it without livestock for the recommended fallow period. Hopefully the experts can chime in on this aspect of it.

 

[AIFlores]

There is a lot going on there. Looks like some sort of aggression issue. Unfortunately the medications you administered won't eradicate either brook or ich and now a possible bacterial infection. The water parameters are a huge factor in this as well. The fish are stressed from the ammonia spike to heating and salinity changes. What medications do you have on hand? Have you confirmed brook or ich, maybe post some photos?

The only medication I have on hand right now is the super ick cure from API. I have some seachem Metro arriving in the morning. I'm still not positive if it's Ich or brook. You've seen what the smaller clown looks like tonight, (tail missing) The first pic I just added is what the bigger clown looks like as of tonight. The last two pictures is what they looked like before I started the ich treatment. I hopw these picturs are of some help to you.

 

[AIFlores]

I'm so sorry to hear of your situation. I just want to chime in regarding your transfer of the rock and substrate to the 20g. I think that can also transfer the pathogen to the new tank unless you're going to leave it without livestock for the recommended fallow period. Hopefully the experts can chime in on this aspect of it.

I was going to let the tank sit for the recommended time period without any livestock to ensure that any pathogens that were transferred would die off. The two clown are the only livestock I planned on keeping them in quarantine until they were healed and the new tank was safe for them.

 

[vetteguy53081]

In your pic below, the clowns show sure signs of brooklynella . Also known as clown disease, you may have or will notice
fish may scrape up against objects, rapid respiration develops, and fish often gasp for air at the surface as the gills become clogged with mucus. Very quickly the fish will become lethargic, refuse to eat, and its colors will fade. The most noticeable symptom of Brooklynella is the heavy amount of slime that is produced by a fish that has contracted this parasite. As the disease progresses, a thick whitish mucus covers the body. This will usually start at the head and spread outward across the entire body.
Skin lesions appear and it is not uncommon for signs of secondary bacterial infections.
Typical treatment is a standard formalin solution is mixed with either fresh or saltwater in a separate treatment container. Initially, all fish are given a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration, followed by continued treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank (QT). Of course, the longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment, the more effective it will be at eliminating this disease.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief may be provided by giving fish a FW bath or dip. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

In the most current picture it does look like ich to me and as @vetteguy53081 mentioned prior, the photos of both fish before you started treatment could have been brook and possibly ich. Metro can be administered in conjunction with copper to combat both potential issues. Chelated copper (copper power or coppersafe) are your best bet. You'll need a reliable copper test kit, my recommendation is hanna checker. You'll need to go bare bottom tank because rocks and substrate absorb the copper and you need to hold it at therapeutical levels for 30 days. Add heavy aeration power head or airstone.

Do you have LFS you can grab a bottle of copper from?

 

[AIFlores]

In the most current picture it does look like ich to me and as @vetteguy53081 mentioned prior, the photos of both fish before you started treatment could have been brook and possibly ich. Metro can be administered in conjunction with copper to combat both potential issues. Chelated copper (copper power or coppersafe) are your best bet. You'll need a reliable copper test kit, my recommendation is hanna checker. You'll need to go bare bottom tank because rocks and substrate absorb the copper and you need to hold it at therapeutical levels for 30 days. Add heavy aeration power head or airstone.

Do you have LFS you can grab a bottle of copper from?

There are a couple pet stores as well as a LFS I can check for copper. The tank has some leftover substrate from when I removed everything but is almost bare bottom. Should I get it all out? Also, since I've already treated for ich, do I need to do anything to clear out any leftover Ich treatment before I start the metro and copper treatment or should it be fine?

 

[LAReefer4Life]

There are a couple pet stores as well as a LFS I can check for copper. The tank has some leftover substrate from when I removed everything but is almost bare bottom. Should I get it all out? Also, since I've already treated for ich, do I need to do anything to clear out any leftover Ich treatment before I start the metro and copper treatment or should it be fine?

Yes conduct a 90% water change. Remove any remaining substrate. Purchase an ammonia seachem alert badge. Use seeded media sponge or bio cubes, etc. to help keep ammonia in check. Start the metroplex right away, 1 level spoon for 10 gallons and re-dose every 48 hours as listed on the manufacturers instructions.

Administer chelated copper to 1ppm, test and then raise to 2.5ppm over a 2 day period, ideally splitting doses AM/PM. This will help reduce stress. Heavily aerate the surface with airstone. You can use the copper dosing calculator below. Its super easy.

Copper Power Calculator | CALCONIC_ Calculator

Custom Copper Power Calculator calculator, built using CALCONIC_

www.calconic.com

 

[LAReefer4Life]

There are a couple pet stores as well as a LFS I can check for copper. The tank has some leftover substrate from when I removed everything but is almost bare bottom. Should I get it all out? Also, since I've already treated for ich, do I need to do anything to clear out any leftover Ich treatment before I start the metro and copper treatment or should it be fine?

You should also grab some anti bacterial medication. Seachem Kanaplex, Nitrofuracin Green, even a 90 minute ruby reef rally would be beneficial for brook and bacterial.

 

[vetteguy53081]

In the most current picture it does look like ich to me and as @vetteguy53081 mentioned prior, the photos of both fish before you started treatment could have been brook and possibly ich. Metro can be administered in conjunction with copper to combat both potential issues. Chelated copper (copper power or coppersafe) are your best bet. You'll need a reliable copper test kit, my recommendation is hanna checker. You'll need to go bare bottom tank because rocks and substrate absorb the copper and you need to hold it at therapeutical levels for 30 days. Add heavy aeration power head or airstone.

Do you have LFS you can grab a bottle of copper from?

he will want Formalin not copper to treat this. Formalin in the form of Quick cure or ruby rally pro will be the answer. He will want to begin treatment with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration, followed by continued treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank.

 

[AIFlores]

I really appreciate the help. I will definitely be going to the lfs asap tomorrow morning to see what I can find. My poor clown need some help. I will keep you guys updated.

 

[Lavey29]

When my clowns got brook, the stronger one attacked the more ill fish even though months had passes with no issues. It was as if the stronger fish was mad that the other fish got him sick and wanted nothing to do with him anymore. Kind of like nature where sick and lame animals get shunned from the herd and left behind.