My Current QT Process

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@HotRocks @Humblefish quick question... when you acclimate those sensitive fairy wrasses to the QT pre dosed at 1 PPM Copper (Copper Power) do you drip acclimate them in? I have a few higher end fairies coming from the west coast and normally use an ammonia reducer such as prime so as the ph raises the ammonium doesn't turn into ammonia and burn there gils.... now since Ill be acclimating to an already copper dosed tank... I am assuming I can't use the ammonia reducer... what would you recommend in this case? I would prefer not to strip the copper out of the system completely because that could give an opportunity for parasites to take hold however I would like the smoothest transition for these as possible as they are costly. Thanks so much in advance!

@4FordFamily any thoughts? thanks in advance!

 

[4FordFamily]

@4FordFamily any thoughts? thanks in advance!

I usually just acclimate them a little longer. Prime is a good idea with bag water, but if you're adding tank water in it's not so great. It may be better to just match the temperature and the salinity in the QT with what they ship in. It's often 1.018 - 1.019. Test the bag water to be sure and if you order from them again it is likely to be close to the same.

I generally slowly add tank water in but the above is probably better practice. I don't use prime but I imagine this would be helpful. I do this with medicated baths with great success.

 

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I usually just acclimate them a little longer. Prime is a good idea with bag water, but if you're adding tank water in it's not so great. It may be better to just match the temperature and the salinity in the QT with what they ship in. It's often 1.018 - 1.019. Test the bag water to be sure and if you order from them again it is likely to be close to the same.

I generally slowly add tank water in but the above is probably better practice. I don't use prime but I imagine this would be helpful. I do this with medicated baths with great success.

Im just concerned with the PH... generally since there in a bag so long the PH drops a lot... would the prime in the bag where the with fish cause any problems as I am dripping the medicated water at 1 ppm (copper power)... I know humble fish did some studies and found prime to be safe with copper power... just not sure I want to risk it on such a costly fish... any thoughts? Thanks again!

 

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@4FordFamily @HotRocks @Humblefish have you ever dosed NOPOX to a QT with copper to try to encourage biological bacteria growth to breakdown nitrates/phos... would it be safe? Thanks

 

[HotRocks]

I have never used it period. Not familiar with it. Be careful mixing chemicals with copper. If you want to boost biological filtration I would just add a bacteria in a bottle product like biospira. I have never worried too much about algae in QT as the tanks are so temporary and I drain them 100% and start over between batches. If phosphate is a little high it’s really no issue. Also if you are using CP you definitely wouldn’t want to use any product that reduces phosphate as it could break the chloroquine down by eliminating the bond.

 

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@HotRocks awesome thanks so much for the reply!! Really appreciate your expertise and time!! Any thoughts on the acclimation I know you’ve had experience in doing this so your feedback would be really valuable to me! Thanks again !!

@HotRocks @Humblefish quick question... when you acclimate those sensitive fairy wrasses to the QT pre dosed at 1 PPM Copper (Copper Power) do you drip acclimate them in? I have a few higher end fairies coming from the west coast and normally use an ammonia reducer such as prime so as the ph raises the ammonium doesn't turn into ammonia and burn there gils.... now since Ill be acclimating to an already copper dosed tank... I am assuming I can't use the ammonia reducer... what would you recommend in this case? I would prefer not to strip the copper out of the system completely because that could give an opportunity for parasites to take hold however I would like the smoothest transition for these as possible as they are costly. Thanks so much in advance!

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks awesome thanks so much for the reply!! Really appreciate your expertise and time!! Any thoughts on the acclimation I know you’ve had experience in doing this so your feedback would be really valuable to me! Thanks again !!

I just float them to match temp. Then I make sure salinity in QT matches the bag and cut them loose. I don’t ever drip anything for acclimation.

 

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I just float them to match temp. Then I make sure salinity in QT matches the bag and cut them loose. I don’t ever drip anything for acclimation.

Isn’t there a large difference in PH since the fish has been in a bag for 12 hrs....

 

[Schnizzle]

I have had much more success since I stopped drip acclimation. I temp and salinity match, then in they go.

 

[CK00020]

I have a question about the water change + poly filter, what % water are we changing and is the poly filter in the hob or the sponge on the air bubbler?

 

[Ross Petersen]

UPDATE: 04/28/2020 - Possible velvet survived even higher concentrations... continue reading.

I've had 4 batches of fish this year thus far, and I thought I'd report some findings and my new method. First of all, I've added a diatom filter to the quarantines to handle UNBELIEVABLY cloudy water. I use Instant Ocean and Reef Crystals, both were equally bad. I use DE and it's worked quite well.

My current method:
Copper 2.25-2.5 PPM for 14 days, metroplex concurrently. Testing with Hanna only. Feeding GC for the second week in this tank. I do not treat with prazipro unless I see evidence of flukes, I wait until the second 14 day period in the second sterile QT.

New quarantine for 14 days observation. I treat with prazi during this time, 1.25x recommended concentration 5-7 days apart. I feed GC and Focus mixed for the first week in here (14 days total) for internal parasites.

I don't use spectrogram or any other antibiotic unless needed. You can add it in either 14 day period if needed -- if you do, diatom filter won't be necessary, as spectogram usually doesn't allow for bacterial blooms I have been experiencing. It does, however, sometimes take its' toll on the beneficial bacteria, so watch your seachem ammonia alert badges and have biospira on ready.

Each batch I start fresh, dry out completely OR bleach in-between.

I've also switched to CP for batch 4 because I've had two failed Copper batches. Full disclosure -- I used 2.25-2.5PPM both times HOWEVER I have been sloppy and multi-tasking so it's possible both failed attempts were cross-contamination with food, hands in tanks, drain hoses, and a myriad of other ways. I am unsure if velvet survived copper or if it was user error. I do not think I cross-contaminated but I am often mindlessly working down there or distracted on the phone. I have also asked @Humblefish, who said he has had one other report similar, but otherwise we may be the only two.

I've moved to CP recently with good success so far. Fish seem happier, but we will see if it's effective or if I mess up again. CP is difficult to get right now, obviously, but I had a bit left over. I am still pretty confident in Copper Power at 2-2.5PPM, but it is POSSIBLE perhaps that velvet is surviving even higher concentrations of copper. I am unsure.

Because of my working from home, being a kindergarten teacher to my 6 year old daughter, a daycare for my 4 year old son, and a massive uptick in business for me with all of this coranavirus stuff, I am stretched very thin and when I try to multi-task (talk to clients while working in fish room) I have caught myself making silly errors I wouldn't under less pressure and under normal circumstances. In short, I am stretched very thin.

IF velvet HAS adapted to higher levels of copper, I don't think increasing the time in copper will help, and who knows if increasing copper would help. In theory it would. We suspect that the distribution system is using higher levels of copper which again, as we claimed 2 years ago or so COULD mean that velvet is adapting and can survive higher concentrations of copper. I've seen NO evidence of ich after any treatment.

@Humblefish and others will be experimenting further with hydrogren peroxide, which may show promise in the future. But for now, I'd continue course but DEFINITELY OBSERVE FOR 14 DAYS after treatment. It's been coming back within 3-5 days.

@HotRocks @Big G

Hey @Ford4Family! Can you clarify what you mean by "batch 4..."

Big picture, is this an accurate summary of this approach?

-2 weeks copper power (or CP), higher than normal. Add concurrent Praziquantel early if see signs of flukes (?)
-Transfer fish to a new tank (escape from them eggs)
-2 weeks prazi with medicated feeding
-Transfer fish to a new tank
-2 weeks+ watchful observation

 

[HotRocks]

Hey @Ford4Family! Can you clarify what you mean by "batch 4..."

Big picture, is this an accurate summary of this approach?

-2 weeks copper power (or CP), higher than normal. Add concurrent Praziquantel early if see signs of flukes (?)
-Transfer fish to a new tank (escape from them eggs)
-2 weeks prazi with medicated feeding
-Transfer fish to a new tank
-2 weeks+ watchful observation

I can tell you we discovered it wasn’t velvet. Prazi resistant strain of flukes that he is dealing with...

Your summary is what the process entails... Yes.

 

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@HotRocks, @4FordFamily, @Big G Would citric acid kill protozoans and bacteria or am I better off using bleach?
Thanks again

 

[Bpp124987]

Anyone using hydrogen peroxide? Bath might slot in between first intro to qt, and between copper qt and transfer to sterile observation.
Ref humbles posts on h2o2

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks, @4FordFamily, @Big G Would citric acid kill protozoans and bacteria or am I better off using bleach?
Thanks again

I would just use bleach. I haven’t looked into citric acid. Bleach does the job.

 

[4FordFamily]

I would just use bleach. I haven’t looked into citric acid. Bleach does the job.

DItto

 

[MrsBugmaster]

@Humblefish , @4FordFamily , @HotRocks
So for my qt process I use the 14 days of therapeutic copper then transfer to new sterilized tank. Well I had to be out of town on the 14th day so now it is past that time frame by 4 days. Is it ok to transfer now or do I now have to wait the full 30 days?

 

[gray808]

This is a spreadsheet/calendar I created to help me keep track of the QT process. I posted it on the @Humblefish website, and I got the "pretty darn close" thumbs up. I think it's accurate to recommended best practices of this thread, and yet as mentioned above, may not take into consideration other variables that may arise.

This is super helpful, thanks!

Quick question. There are a couple of terms in the sheet that I am not 100% sure about:

"Metro" = SeaChem MetroPlex?
"Selcon" = American Marine Selcon?
When it says "Feed Selcon only", should I take that literally? Just Selcon, no flake or other food?
"Feed Selcon GC Focus" = Same Selcon from above + API General Cure + SeaChem Focus ?

Thanks for clarification!

--Gray

 

[blackstallion]

This is a spreadsheet/calendar I created to help me keep track of the QT process. I posted it on the @Humblefish website, and I got the "pretty darn close" thumbs up. I think it's accurate to recommended best practices of this thread, and yet as mentioned above, may not take into consideration other variables that may arise. I am NOT the expert, but needed a condensed calendar to visually follow as I went through the process. I printed it, and then added handwritten calendar dates on it so I didn't lose track. Also, I found there was enough room in each cell to write my copper test results. Moderators of this thread... if you don't want this posted here... or suggest any corrections... please let me know!

This excel/calendar looks like it could be very helpful/useful, but there are some points that need to be elaborated if you don't mind? Seems this is a variation of the OP's plan since this calendar assumes you're going the full 30 days on Copper correct?

And why are you stating to dose MetroPlex AND GC on alternate days? GC contains metronidazole (which is what is in Metro).

And regarding the days you state Selcon only, does that mean food just soaked in Selcon and no meds?

 

[gray808]

If it is the one I am using from this thread, it's 2 weeks on copper, starting when you are at "therapeutic dose", combined with 2 weeks Metroplex, a tank change, then 2 weeks on General Cure, then a final 2 week observation period.

With a couple of suggestions for other meds if specific things are suspected.

And copper and chloroquine phosphate seem to be somewhat interchangeable, so pick one (likely copper, as chloroquine phosphate seems basically impossible to find at the moment).

--Gray