My Current QT Process

[HotRocks]

What's the reason for increasing the duration of the copper? Are you breaking the lifecycle of ich by moving tanks?

Copper only kills the final free swimming stage (looking for a fish to host) of the Ich/velvet life cycle.
So in 14 days time the fish themselves are clear of any trophonts. (likely in 7-10 days) 14 is insurance. They drop off the fish and begin reproduction eventually to the free swimming stage of tomite or dinospores. In therapeutic copper they explode instantly upon release. Therefore the fish can not be re-infected. That is why the transfer to a sterile QT works in the 14 day range, as the tomonts are left behind in the copper tank. FYI tomonts can encyst upon anything hard. PVC pipe, glass, filter, heater, etc. So you do have to use caution when transferring fish. I always net them into a bucket matching QT parameters dosed with copper. Then use a sperate net to move them from bucket to sterile QT.

However if you are lowering copper sooner than 30 days using the same tank there can still be viable tomonts releasing free swimmers to re-infect the fish. Make sense?

1 QT for Copper = 30 days of copper at the therapeutic level.
2 QTs = 14 days in tank 1 of therapeutic copper, then transfer to sterile tank 2.

 

[ReeferBean]

Copper only kills the final free swimming stage (looking for a fish to host) of the Ich/velvet life cycle.
So in 14 days time the fish themselves are clear of any trophonts. (likely in 7-10 days) 14 is insurance. They drop off the fish and begin reproduction eventually to the free swimming stage of tomite or dinospores. In therapeutic copper they explode instantly upon release. Therefore the fish can not be re-infected. That is why the transfer to a sterile QT works in the 14 day range, as the tomonts are left behind in the copper tank. FYI tomonts can encyst upon anything hard. PVC pipe, glass, filter, heater, etc. So you do have to use caution when transferring fish. I always net them into a bucket matching QT parameters dosed with copper. Then use a sperate net to move them from bucket to sterile QT.

However if you are lowering copper sooner than 30 days using the same tank there can still be viable tomonts releasing free swimmers to re-infect the fish. Make sense?

1 QT for Copper = 30 days of copper at the therapeutic level.
2 QTs = 14 days in tank 1 of therapeutic copper, then transfer to sterile tank 2.

Yes that makes sense.

Can I treat with GC first, then ramp up the copper and remove the fish after 14 days in the therapeutic range?

 

[HotRocks]

Yes that makes sense.

Can I treat with GC first, then ramp up the copper and remove the fish after 14 days in the therapeutic range?

You can yes. Prefer copper first, as if a fish has velvet you could be losing valuable time starting with GC.

On the flip side. If you are dealing with a Brook or uronema prone fish you could be better off.

 

[don_chuwish]

What's the reason for increasing the duration of the copper? Are you breaking the lifecycle of ich by moving tanks?

Correct - no ich on the fish or free swimming tomonts in the current QT tank and certainly none in the clean new tank. You're leaving behind anything encysted in the old tank.

 

[ReeferBean]

Thanks @HotRocks @don_chuwish very helpful.

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

Moving the tanks is just like using the tank transfer method after the 14th day

 

[HotRocks]

Moving the tanks is just like using the tank transfer method after the 14th day

Correct. With less room for error IMO. Added benefit is TTM is much more difficult to achieve success erradicating velvet. If at all possible.

 

[Matt Carden]

I just went through your list of meds. I got extreme sticker shock at the NFG WOW!

I couldn't find any Formalin available for sale.

 

[HotRocks]

I just went through your list of meds. I got extreme sticker shock at the NFG WOW!

I couldn't find any Formalin available for sale.

I know it is expensive. Even at the smallest quantity, but it is worth its weight in gold for me the amount of fish I have saved using it.
As far as formalin I need to do some research and see what is out there. I have formalin MS which is no longer available. There are several other products that contain formalin still available. Kordon Rid Ich is one I know of for sure.

 

[cycled123]

Currently I am running QT with copper or CP depending on fish for 30 days with general cure in food first 7 days and in water last 7 days. I may need to adapt to this method with my more sensitive fish. I have had multiple fish losses from velvet, uronemia, and bacterial infections in QT. Great write up!

 

[HotRocks]

Currently I am running QT with copper or CP depending on fish for 30 days with general cure in food first 7 days and in water last 7 days. I may need to adapt to this method with my more sensitive fish. I have had multiple fish losses from velvet, uronemia, and bacterial infections in QT. Great write up!

Thanks!
If it's feasible for you to add a second QT in order to make a transfer out of copper or CP at the 14 day mark you may be able to reduce your losses. Especially with bacterial infections. They seem to show up in the latter part of a 30 day treatment.

 

[JoshKReef]

For the 2 rounds of prazi / gc....

After 14 days of copper, if you dose the sterile tank with prazi/gc, couldn't you get away with just 1 round? I thought the second dose was because eggs hatched, should any eggs be present? Are the eggs on the fish, or on a surface in the first tank?

 

[HotRocks]

Two rounds of GC is needed. The eggs are on the fish.

 

[Viner87]

Two rounds of GC is needed. The eggs are on the fish.

What do you mean by GC dude? Does it have a full name? Probably not available in the uk [emoji849]

 

[HotRocks]

What do you mean by GC dude? Does it have a full name? Probably not available in the uk [emoji849]

It's general cure by API. Or you can use Prazipro.

 

[Viner87]

Do any of you guys know much about hypo?

I’m bringing my salinity back up by increasing salinity by 0.003 daily, but noticed since it’s hit 1.020 the fish are starting to look a little stressed and are occasionally flashing.

I’m confident this isn’t ick because I treated with Cupramine at the start of September when I went fallow and haven’t seen a single spot since - also treated with Prazi several times to hit flukes too, which wasn’t working (hence the hypo).

The hypo worked and I didn’t get any flashing or sign of flukes, but since raising my salinity back up, my fish are looking a bit stressed.

Should I hold off increasing my salinity for now or is this flashing fairly normal? I’m thinking extra salinity would itch to be fair, but also read stories of osmotic shock.

Any help would be appreciated [emoji1303]

 

[HotRocks]

Do any of you guys know much about hypo?

I’m bringing my salinity back up by increasing salinity by 0.003 daily, but noticed since it’s hit 1.020 the fish are starting to look a little stressed and are occasionally flashing.

I’m confident this isn’t ick because I treated with Cupramine at the start of September when I went fallow and haven’t seen a single spot since - also treated with Prazi several times to hit flukes too, which wasn’t working (hence the hypo).

The hypo worked and I didn’t get any flashing or sign of flukes, but since raising my salinity back up, my fish are looking a bit stressed.

Should I hold off increasing my salinity for now or is this flashing fairly normal? I’m thinking extra salinity would itch to be fair, but also read stories of osmotic shock.

Any help would be appreciated [emoji1303]

I would probably slow down on increasing salinity. I have never increased salinity more than. .001 or less daily. How are you increasing it?

Just FYI I only increase salinity by topping off the tank with saltwater instead of freshwater to compensate for evaporation.

 

[Viner87]

I would probably slow down on increasing salinity. I have never increased salinity more than. .001 or less daily. How are you increasing it?

Just FYI I only increase salinity by topping off the tank with saltwater instead of freshwater to compensate for evaporation.

Really? I’ve read so many different views now. My QT tanks have lids to stop the Wrasse carpet surfing, so I don’t get any evaporation.

I’ve been removing 10% water and slowly reintroducing saline water through RO tubing - it’s a really slow way that takes a hour or so and I have loads of water movement to ensure mixing immediately.

 

[HotRocks]

Really? I’ve read so many different views now. My QT tanks have lids to stop the Wrasse carpet surfing, so I don’t get any evaporation.

I’ve been removing 10% water and slowly reintroducing saline water through RO tubing - it’s a really slow way that takes a hour or so and I have loads of water movement to ensure mixing immediately.

It doesn't sound like it should be problematic. Have you finished increasing salinity? Or do you still need to raise it more?

The other factor could be a hypo resistant strain of whatever you are dealing with and hypo has supressed but not erradicated whatever it may be. Now that salinity is being raised it's taking back over.

 

[Viner87]

It doesn't sound like it should be problematic. Have you finished increasing salinity? Or do you still need to raise it more?

The other factor could be a hypo resistant strain of whatever you are dealing with and hypo has supressed but not erradicated whatever it may be. Now that salinity is being raised it's taking back over.

Not finished yet - my Wrasse tank is at 1.022 and my tang tank at 1.020 (my reef is 1.025).

It’s definitely not ick, because I haven’t seen a sign of spot since I first treated with Cupramine back at the start of September.

The only thing it could be is flukes, but I can’t see how after using Prazi 4 times now and running hypo for 2 weeks - flukes and eggs take a max of 7days to die in hypo.

I’m sure it’s just stress of being in QT for so long, a heavy bio load and the new salinity causing them a bit of itching - can’t see what else it could be? All fish are fat, healthy and eat tonnes...