My Next Fish: Your Suggestions Welcome....

[VR28man]

So I'm thinking of getting another fish. Current/soon to be introduced from quarnatine inhabitants include a mated pair of pearly jawfish and a fire goby, a few shrimp and snails, a zoa and lps.

Requirements:

• needs to be peaceful and compatible with the current inhabitants

• should be fairly, but not too active. We don't need another fish that will sit in the rocks all day and only come out occasionally.
• current tank is 30x11x19. I am going to upgrade to a 48x16x16 this year, but i don't want to bet on that until the money is down.
• would prefer a fish from shallower waters, from the upper fore reef or lagoon Zones
• Should be colorful

Some that I've considered:

• royal gramma: i would need w bit more rock. More importantly, i get the impression this species likes to hide a lot?
• A very small dwarf angel: very worried about aggression, and too big for the tank in the long run.
• One or another cardinal: vr28woman says Banggais are out. She wasn't too fond of PJ cardinals, but I might try again.
• Small fairy wrasse: worried it might be a bit too small of a tank in the long run. Also a bit worried it might be a bit too active. But I’m thinking very strongly about this, since I want a few for the 48” tank for sure
• Ocellaris clown: almost the default. Worried that it might get aggressive. An anemone is also not in the cards for a while. Also, at least for now, would prefer something less common.
• peaceful damsel - starck or azure damsel.

Other suggestions?

 

[Big G]

Springer Damsels. Peaceful and active.

 

[eatbreakfast]

So I'm thinking of getting another fish. Current/soon to be introduced from quarnatine inhabitants include a mated pair of pearly jawfish and a fire goby, a few shrimp and snails, a zoa and lps.

Requirements:

• needs to be peaceful and compatible with the current inhabitants

• should be fairly, but not too active. We don't need another fish that will sit in the rocks all day and only come out occasionally.
• current tank is 30x11x19. I am going to upgrade to a 48x16x16 this year, but i don't want to bet on that until the money is down.
• would prefer a fish from shallower waters, from the upper fore reef or lagoon Zones
• Should be colorful

Some that I've considered:

• royal gramma: i would need w bit more rock. More importantly, i get the impression this species likes to hide a lot?
• A very small dwarf angel: very worried about aggression, and too big for the tank in the long run.
• One or another cardinal: vr28woman says Banggais are out. She wasn't too fond of PJ cardinals, but I might try again.
• Small fairy wrasse: worried it might be a bit too small of a tank in the long run. Also a bit worried it might be a bit too active. But I’m thinking very strongly about this, since I want a few for the 48” tank for sure
• Ocellaris clown: almost the default. Worried that it might get aggressive. An anemone is also not in the cards for a while. Also, at least for now, would prefer something less common.
• peaceful damsel - starck or azure damsel.

Other suggestions?

Royal grammas get bolder as they get more comfortable in the tank.

This size tank is a little small for a dwarf angel, especially if you don't want it to get aggressive.

Depending on how soon you plan on upgrading a flasher may be possible temporarily.

In this size tank a starki damsel may be a little too aggressive with your current fish.

Springer Damsels. Peaceful and active.

This is a good damsel choice.

A few other suggestions include: yellow assessor, chalk bass, tobacco basslet.

 

[40B Knasty]

you would be fine with a wrasse for a few months since you are doing the upgrade. Just know when you go to do the transfer and it dives into the sand bed. It is not safe to be pulling them out and very stressful. So if you can hold off. I would do that. Then you could use your old tank as a qt tank also.
A dwarf angel will have plenty of room in a 48". You could even get a tang.
Get a dragonet. They are always buzzing around. My spotted mandarin was all over the tank and playing with the clown fish. My Green mandarin came not eating frozen foods, but he is now. Only took a month. I could teach you how to get them to feed on frozen foods.

 

[eatbreakfast]

you would be fine with a wrasse for a few months since you are doing the upgrade. Just know when you go to do the transfer and it dives into the sand bed. It is not safe to be pulling them out and very stressful. So if you can hold off. I would do that. Then you could use your old tank as a qt tank also.
A dwarf angel will have plenty of room in a 48". You could even get a tang.
Get a dragonet. They are always buzzing around. My spotted mandarin was all over the tank and playing with the clown fish. My Green mandarin came not eating frozen foods, but he is now. Only took a month. I could teach you how to get them to feed on frozen foods.

Fairy and flasher wrasses don't bury, so no worries there.

I would strongly advise against a dragonet in a tank tha small, but rather recommend the op wait until after the upgrade has been setup for at least 6 months.

 

[40B Knasty]

Fairy and flasher wrasses don't bury, so no worries there.

I would strongly advise against a dragonet in a tank tha small, but rather recommend the op wait until after the upgrade has been setup for at least 6 months.

Yup, I know about the wrasse that do not bury. I was warning him about the ones that do. There is way too many wrasse to go into heavy details.
I had a spotted mandarin in a 20g that got transferred to a 40g. Now a green mandarin in a new 65g. That's why I said I can teach the OP. If the OP is not dedicated to trying their best. Then I wouldn't bother. Trust me it can be done. You just need to know how to do it. Pushing people away from them is not the answer, because the dragonet could end up in a way worse situation. You or I do not know how much the OP cares for their tank and the OP being a fellow R2R member I would gladly assist them.
Think about it like this. A dragonet is just fish and one that can be kept. Like every other fish. Ya just need to know the fish. Like every other fish to have success. We are not talking about a moorish idol.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Yup, I know about the wrasse that do not bury. I was warning him about the ones that do. There is way too many wrasse to go into heavy details.
I had a spotted mandarin in a 20g that got transferred to a 40g. Now a green mandarin in a new 65g. That's why I said I can teach the OP. If the OP is not dedicated to trying their best. Then I wouldn't bother. Trust me it can be done. You just need to know how to do it. Pushing people away from them is not the answer, because the dragonet could end up in a way worse situation. You or I do not know how much the OP cares for their tank and the OP being a fellow R2R member I would gladly assist them.
Think about it like this. A dragonet is just fish and one that can be kept. Like every other fish. Ya just need to know the fish. Like every other fish to have success. We are not talking about a moorish idol.

A sand burying species of wrasse would not do well in a tank that size.

Even with patience and training many mandarins will not take frozen. It's great that it worked for you, but reality for most, is that it is not a good choice for a tank 30g or less.

Any fish can be kept, even the moorish idol, it just depends on what gives it the best odds. For a mandarin, the odds drastically improve in tanks 50+ gallons, so while some may have success in a smaller tank, most will not.

 

[40B Knasty]

A sand burying species of wrasse would not do well in a tank that size.

Even with patience and training many mandarins will not take frozen. It's great that it worked for you, but reality for most, is that it is not a good choice for a tank 30g or less.

Any fish can be kept, even the moorish idol, it just depends on what gives it the best odds. For a mandarin, the odds drastically improve in tanks 50+ gallons, so while some may have success in a smaller tank, most will not.

The tank the OP is getting is 53g.
A mandarin won't starve if a person gives it all it needs to eat to survive.
Success for a dragonet does not have to be done in the display tank if you are feeding the display tank what it needs for every kind of fish. I feed mine 1000 baby brine shrimp in a feeding station and dumping 5k tigger pods in every week. I was trying to keep this simple, but if we are going to get technical. Here is how. Lots of pods. Ask me how to have them. Baby brine shrimp will get them to eating frozens.
I said we are not talking about a moorish idol. Knowing that is not even close to being relevant for the topic. Anyone that has a tank big enough for a Moorish idol is probably to be busy to be on a forum and has someone taking care of it.

 

[eatbreakfast]

The tank the OP is getting is 53g.
Success for a dragonet does not have to be done in the display tank if you are feeding the display tank what it needs for every kind of fish.

The tank the op currently has is 27g. The tank he is planning on getting is bigger, but according to his own words he doesn't want to bet on that until the money is down. Even then, odds of success with a mandarin greatly increase if he waits for it to mature for 6-12 months.

I feed mine 1000 baby brine shrimp in a feeding station and dumping 5k tigger pods in every week. I was trying to keep this simple, but if we are going to get technical. Here is how. Lots of pods. Ask me how to have them. Baby brine shrimp will get them to eating frozens.

That is a lot of extra work going into keeping a mandarin in an undersized syatem. Can it be done? Sure. But is that a process most aren't willing to do.

I personally have been able to wean some mandarins on frozen using live brine and shrimp roe, but using the same process have had other mandarins refuse food. So it's no guarantee.

I said we are not talking about a moorish idol. Knowing that is not even close to being relevant for the topic. Anyone that has a tank big enough for a Moorish idol is probably to be busy to be on a forum and has someone taking care of it.

Unless you happen to be the one taking care of the tank

 

[40B Knasty]

The tank the op currently has is 27g. The tank he is planning on getting is bigger, but according to his own words he doesn't want to bet on that until the money is down. Even then, odds of success with a mandarin greatly increase if he waits for it to mature for 6-12 months.


That is a lot of extra work going into keeping a mandarin in an undersized syatem. Can it be done? Sure. But is that a process most aren't willing to do.

I personally have been able to wean some mandarins on frozen using live brine and shrimp roe, but using the same process have had other mandarins refuse food. So it's no guarantee.

Unless you happen to be the one taking care of the tank

If the tank is cycled. A mandarin will live, correct?
If you are dumping in 5k pods in a week that is plenty since a mandarin can eat up to 500 a day. 500 pods per day x7 days= 3,500 pods needed a week to be 100% sure it will not starve. 1,500+ extra per week is a great safety net and insurance.
The comment about it being to much work. Looking at a tank. Putting a pinch of spirulina in 3oz of water every other day and adding one gallon of water per week. Is not hard. Especially when the food I am putting in my tank.is worth $2,080 a year for the cost of spending $20 on a bottle and that is not even counting gas money to go get the food at a LFS 50m away. So now it is well worth it.
The baby brine shrimp is a $15 bottle that will last me about 6-10 months. Once again, not even counting the gas money. Add 8oz of water.
This is all live food and I know where it is coming from. Frozen foods are not shipped well or properly stored right in 80% of the LFS.
If a person doesn't get a dragonet to eat frozen foods. So what. That is to be expected BEFORE buying the fish. So saying no is only because you do expect it. Saying yes is because you know you can do it right with pods and BBS. The rest was you got lucky to some. To me it is just something different to add to the diet outside of it's true source of food.

 

[VR28man]

Wow, didn't know this would inspire a minor flame war.

Seriuously, thanks for the input so far. I need to go to work now, but I've thought some on some of the things mentioned in this thread before. To include a Mandarin(thinking of one, but yes I would prefer a more mature tank) . More to come this evening.

 

[eatbreakfast]

If you are dumping in 5k pods in a week that is plenty since a mandarin can eat up to 500 a day. 500 pods per day x7 days= 3,500 pods needed a week to be 100% sure it will not starve. 1,500+ extra per week is a great safety net and insurance.

Most mandarins eat a pod every 5-10 seconds, let's be conservative and say it eats one every 20seconds, half the rate of normal, multiply that out over an 8hr light cycle, which is shorter than most mandarins are active, and that brings you to 1440 pods a day. If the mandarin can find every single pod, it's running at a deficit a little over halfway through the week.

The comment about it being to much work. Looking at a tank. Putting a pinch of spirulina in 3oz of water every other day and adding one gallon of water per week. Is not hard. Especially when the food I am putting in my tank.is worth $2,080 a year for the cost of spending $20 on a bottle and that is not even counting gas money to go get the food at a LFS 50m away. So now it is well worth it.
The baby brine shrimp is a $15 bottle that will last me about 6-10 months. Once again, not even counting the gas money. Add 8oz of water.
.

That effort does add up. Setting up a small tank, having the space for it, feeding them everyday, convincing the significant other to let you put it up, the reoccurring expense which adds up over time. It's just more than the vast majority of hobbyists want to do.

This is all live food and I know where it is coming from. Frozen foods are not shipped well or properly stored right in 80% of the LFS.

How do you even come up with this figure?
I've been to every LFS in a 100 mile radius and many others when I am in other areas. They all have adequate storage for frozen. And when I have had frozen foods shipped, only the now defunct H2O life shipped poorly. Everyone else had it packed well in styro and dry ice.

If a person doesn't get a dragonet to eat frozen foods. So what. That is to be expected BEFORE buying the fish. So saying no is only because you do expect it. Saying yes is because you know you can do it right with pods and BBS. The rest was you got lucky to some. To me it is just something different to add to the diet outside of it's true source of food.

You're right, a mandarin not eating prepared foods should be expected, so isn't the beat suggestion for a 27g tank.

 

[40B Knasty]

Most mandarins eat a pod every 5-10 seconds, let's be conservative and say it eats one every 20seconds, half the rate of normal, multiply that out over an 8hr light cycle, which is shorter than most mandarins are active, and that brings you to 1440 pods a day. If the mandarin can find every single pod, it's running at a deficit a little over halfway through the week.

That effort does add up. Setting up a small tank, having the space for it, feeding them everyday, convincing the significant other to let you put it up, the reoccurring expense which adds up over time. It's just more than the vast majority of hobbyists want to do.

How do you even come up with this figure?
I've been to every LFS in a 100 mile radius and many others when I am in other areas. They all have adequate storage for frozen. And when I have had frozen foods shipped, only the now defunct H2O life shipped poorly. Everyone else had it packed well in styro and dry ice.

You're right, a mandarin not eating prepared foods should be expected, so isn't the beat suggestion for a 27g tank.

Do you really think it "needs" to eat every 5, 10, 20 seconds? Any fish will eat at anytime you put food in front of their face, fact. If a fish has a tank to eat every second it will. That is called over feeding. Which is not healthy. 500 tigger pods is bigger than a dragonets stomach. When it eats. It swallows and is pretty much sucking the nutrients out through its small intestine. Whatever the food source be.
As for setting up another tank. How can you say anything about a 5g tank when a person is taking care of a 50g+. My mother has 6 x 5 gallon tanks and she is elderly and take care of them no problem.
As for the significant other. Tell them if you love me and know how I am and this is what I want. Then they should be supportive of your hobby wants. Not against it. Do I need to do couples therapy counseling for fish adding?
You live in CT. There is about 10 good LFS. I live in MA. Petco does not carry Hikari. The 3 closest LFS are 45m-55m away.
I had a mandarin in a 20g. Plenty of room. The ONLY reason for a bigger tank is more room for pods. If you are feeding it pods expecting them to be eaten and ALWAYS replenish them. Then you are in the right mind frame of having one. The only thing that qualifies them as difficult is how many pods you are giving them. Not them eating carols, aggressive behavior except to another mandarin, and no pods or baby brine shrimp.
As for the food not being stored well or shipped well. #1 It will most likely not be shipped by air, because a package can not contain more than 4.4lbs of dry ice in a package, because the weight will change.#2 Now Japan is where Hikari is from. If you think a box is going to get shipped across an ocean, loaded on a tractor trailer in Sunny California, and all the way to MA or CT and not be thawed out at least 4 times. That's just crazy talk. Standard shipping is 5-7 days. I highly doubt it is being 1st day air all the way from Japan. Also smell the food and look at the color. If it is fishy smelling. It has been refrozen. Only 2 store in ALL of MA has a deep freezer to store food properly.
Just give it up man. This not a thread about you getting the last word in like I always see you do. Answer the question and move on like I have said in the past to you. You do not know it all. You do know a lot. You obviously do not know mandarins. Since you are saying no to having one. When it is easy to do for me. Any pet will die if you do not know it. Not going to feed a mandarin a steak, but flash one in front of a shark and it is a different story.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Do you really think it "needs" to eat every 5, 10, 20 seconds?

Yes, this is how they eat in the wild and their behavior and biology have adapted for this frequency and quantity ovee millennia.

Any fish will eat at anytime you put food in front of their face, fact. If a fish has a tank to eat every second it will. That is called over feeding. Which is not healthy.

For most fish this is true, but the biology and behavior is not the same for mandarins as it is for most fish.

500 tigger pods is bigger than a dragonets stomach. When it eats. It swallows and is pretty much sucking the nutrients out through its small intestine. Whatever the food source be.

Eating and digestion are continual, not static processes. Because their digestive tract is so short it is very inefficient, so they need to consume greater quantity to meet their nutritional needs.

As for the significant other. Tell them if you love me and know how I am and this is what I want. Then they should be supportive of your hobby wants. Not against it. Do I need to do couples therapy counseling for fish adding?

Works for some people, not for others

The ONLY reason for a bigger tank is more room for pods. If you are feeding it pods expecting them to be eaten and ALWAYS replenish them. Then you are in the right mind frame of having one. The only thing that qualifies them as difficult is how many pods you are giving them. Not them eating carols, aggressive behavior except to another mandarin, and no pods or baby brine shrimp.

Having appropriate amount of pods is a pretty important reason. Not everybody wants to continually add pods.

As for the food not being stored well or shipped well. #1 It will most likely not be shipped by air, because a package can not contain more than 4.4lbs of dry ice in a package, because the weight will change.#2 Now Japan is where Hikari is from. If you think a box is going to get shipped across an ocean, loaded on a tractor trailer in Sunny California, and all the way to MA or CT and not be thawed out at least 4 times. That's just crazy talk. Standard shipping is 5-7 days. I highly doubt it is being 1st day air all the way from Japan.

Look at modern shipping logistics. Mankind has been able to ship frozen food, and keep it frozen for decades. Just take a walk down the frozen food aisles at your local grocery store, or even better, the frozen food at an Asian food market.

Also smell the food and look at the color. If it is fishy smelling. It has been refrozen.

This is correct, but also especially easy to check, particularly with mysis. Mysis turns a beige-ish brown and it is noticeably different than mysis that has not been thawed and refrozen. And frozen fish foods are making their travels without thawing, barring accidents or unexpected travel delays.

This not a thread about you getting the last word in like I always see you do.

Not always, just when poor or incomplete advice is given.

Answer the question and move on like I have said in the past to you.

As much I disagree with your stance, I don't try to shut you down because I am not averse to different information or perspectives. Only those that can't handle being challenged, for whatever reasons, try to silence their opponents.

You obviously do not know mandarins. Since you are saying no to having one.

Observe them, watch their behaviors. They are very deliberate and easy to watch, there is footage of them in th wild, they have been in the hobby for a few decades. Mandarins can most definitely be provided for in aquaria, and some can have success providing for their special needs in smaller than suggested tanks, however, they become much easier to care for by putting them in a 50+g aquarium that has matured for 6+ months, and doesn't have pod eating competition. I advised the op against one in a 27g aquarium because in that size tank it has special requirements, and I would like the op to have success.

 

[40B Knasty]

Yes, this is how they eat in the wild and their behavior and biology have adapted for this frequency and quantity ovee millennia.

For most fish this is true, but the biology and behavior is not the same for mandarins as it is for most fish.

Eating and digestion are continual, not static processes. Because their digestive tract is so short it is very inefficient, so they need to consume greater quantity to meet their nutritional needs.

Works for some people, not for others

Having appropriate amount of pods is a pretty important reason. Not everybody wants to continually add pods.

Look at modern shipping logistics. Mankind has been able to ship frozen food, and keep it frozen for decades. Just take a walk down the frozen food aisles at your local grocery store, or even better, the frozen food at an Asian food market.

This is correct, but also especially easy to check, particularly with mysis. Mysis turns a beige-ish brown and it is noticeably different than mysis that has not been thawed and refrozen. And frozen fish foods are making their travels without thawing, barring accidents or unexpected travel delays.

Not always, just when poor or incomplete advice is given.

As much I disagree with your stance, I don't try to shut you down because I am not averse to different information or perspectives. Only those that can't handle being challenged, for whatever reasons, try to silence their opponents.

Observe them, watch their behaviors. They are very deliberate and easy to watch, there is footage of them in th wild, they have been in the hobby for a few decades. Mandarins can most definitely be provided for in aquaria, and some can have success providing for their special needs in smaller than suggested tanks, however, they become much easier to care for by putting them in a 50+g aquarium that has matured for 6+ months, and doesn't have pod eating competition. I advised the op against one in a 27g aquarium because in that size tank it has special requirements, and I would like the op to have success.

poor or incomplete advice? He hasn't asked how to do it. I said"ask me." So until he asks I do not have to complete the statement to you since the thread is not about you, but since you have made it about you. All you have said is basic. Your lack of information and experience keeping one vs just observing fish is not beneficial.
Disagree all you want, but to call it poor. Then turn around and agree with 90% of what I said of having experience with my day to day actual experience keeping one that works. What you are saying is conflicting 100%. I don't need you to agree or disagree with what I say. Since it is a best chance of working and I have proof that is and it is soooo easy.
I am not calling you an opponent or trying to silence you. I already know only you can do that and it looks like you now can 95% agree with what I have to say about you have to have the last word. This is a trending on going thing with you. You are a staff member. Conduct yourself better.
There is no challenge for me. If I say what works. You say what is basic knowledge. Think which of the 2 works for an OP to be successful if you are always trying to shut down every person's opinion and ways? Another contradiction since you just said you do not shut down another person's perspective THAT WORKS. Like I said, drop it. Give it a try for yourself. Not for me. I already know you want to reply.
For what it is worth. A smaller tank would be better to train a mandarin in to getting them to eating frozens in a low flow zone.

 

[jenjen]

I'll stay away from the Mandarin debate, but would like to suggest a tailspot blenny. Yes they stay close to the rocks, but they're very active and super fun to watch.

Talbot's damsels are also quite docile and I've found can be kept in a small group rather peacefully as long as they each get their own little hole to guard.

 

[eatbreakfast]

poor or incomplete advice? .

Recommending a mandarin for 27g, poor advice.

. All you have said is basic. Your lack of information and experience keeping one vs just observing fish is not beneficial.

I have kept a few over the years, had spawning prs and taken care of even more in customers tanks. I have more than just a passing experience with these fish. But have also supplemented my experiences by observing them and considering the experiences of others.

...my day to day actual experience keeping one that works .

My experience is having success food training mandarins successfully, trying to train others, but have them refuse frozen, having spawning prs myself and taking care of spawning prs in others tanks, advising people to be successful with them, and making recommendations only to watch the recommendations be ignored and the mandarins waste away. There are many things that can be said about my viewpoints on mandarins, but inexperienced is not one of them.

Since it is a best chance of working and I have proof that is and it is soooo easy.
.

Even if it is easy for you, it's most certainly not easier than adding a fish that has no special requirements or putting it in a larger, more mature tank.

You say what is basic knowledge. Think which of the 2 works for an OP to be successful if you are always trying to shut down every person's opinion and ways?

Not trying to shut anyone down. And yes, what I am saying is basic, simple. Remember Occam's razor, simplest is usually best.

Like I said, drop it. Give it a try for yourself. e.

You could always follow your own advice.

For what it is worth. A smaller tank would be better to train a mandarin in to getting them to eating frozens in a low flow zone.

I have found that they are more likely to eat frozen when it is moving as it looks more alive.

 

[40B Knasty]

Recommending a mandarin for 27g, poor advice.

I have kept a few over the years, had spawning prs and taken care of even more in customers tanks. I have more than just a passing experience with these fish. But have also supplemented my experiences by observing them and considering the experiences of others.

My experience is having success food training mandarins successfully, trying to train others, but have them refuse frozen, having spawning prs myself and taking care of spawning prs in others tanks, advising people to be successful with them, and making recommendations only to watch the recommendations be ignored and the mandarins waste away. There are many things that can be said about my viewpoints on mandarins, but inexperienced is not one of them.

Even if it is easy for you, it's most certainly not easier than adding a fish that has no special requirements or putting it in a larger, more mature tank.

Not trying to shut anyone down. And yes, what I am saying is basic, simple. Remember Occam's razor, simplest is usually best.

You could always follow your own advice.

I have found that they are more likely to eat frozen when it is moving as it looks more alive.

Anyone's advice is poor since all fish should be kept in the ocean. That is the best advice. When you say 27g is poor advice to keep one in, but the recommended advice is 30g. 3 gallons is not going to make a difference vs a tang needing a tank 4 feet long minimum. That I can see.
If by you telling me to take my own advice is advice from you. I can see you have never given into taking advice, but just taken the words and tried to find a way to twist them to shut down what you feel is a challenge from what you think is an opponent. That I can see too
Anyone can say they have taken care of one on the internet to please the crowd. Usually proof is in pudding. I have observed a lot of fish too
Here are my two very emaciated mandarins that I have kept. Spotted was in a 20g. The spotted mandarin died due to velvet. The video says it all about the green mandarin.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Anyone's advice is poor since all fish should be kept in the ocean. That is the best advice. ]

Not true. There are many species that stay in an area smaller than most aquariums their whole life. Clowns, blennies, gobies, basslets, damsels, some wrasses, some hawkfish, stay in very limited spaces. Add to that, if properly planned there is no predators and ample food is provided.

Other species, such as tangs and large angels cover much greater area, so ethics could then be considered. But attrition on the reefs is quite high.

When you say 27g is poor advice to keep one in, but the recommended advice is 30g. 3 gallons is not going to make a difference vs a tang needing a tank 4 feet long minimum. That I can see.

30g is not appropriate for mandarins for the average hobbyist. I've said it before, I'll say it again, 50+g matured for 6+months greatly increases success without having to do anything special.

Usually proof is in pudding.

Indeed it is. Anyone can look through the advice I have offered here and throughout my history here. It's an open book and speaks for itself.

 

[S-t-r-e-t-c-h]

Usually proof is in pudding.

I hate to get jumbled up in these types of conversations, but I have to agree that dragonettes have terrible survival rates in small tanks. Chances for success go WAY up when they're put in appropriately sized, mature tanks. There really isn't any arguing that.

No one is saying that your situation is impossible. But even providing live foods isn't a guarantee that one will ever switch to prepared foods. That's something most people want to know in advance...